The demonisation of single mothers.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

Hi,

I've ended up talking about this in various threads but have never dedicated a thread to it.

So, i'm looking for your thoughts. How do we see this in action? What are the views of single mothers? How are they propagated? Why are they propagated and why do they attract such demonisation?

I'd also like to hear about where you think the feminist vision saw single mothers, did it predict their would be more given the increased freedom women would have in their lives and their ability to leave male partners or choose to not have one without being financially or socially (though that hasn't held true entirely compared to 1960's it's at least possible to live this way) ruined?

Is women being able to have children alone a part of the feminist outcome - if women have more control over their bodies and reproduction surely it was an inevitable outcome? And is it in your mind a positive or negative thing in terms of feminism?

I'm actually going away for a few days now but hope this will attract lots of thoughts for me to read when i get back.

As for me, to put this in context, i am a single mother of a pre school boy. When i found out i was pregnant (unplanned) at 30 i decided that i was happy to be and wanted to keep the baby but that i didn't want to stay in the problematic relationship with the father. Therefore i've been a single parent from the outset.

I have framed this as about single mothers rather than single parents as it is my experience that single fathers are seen very differently, imo as heroes and glorified whereas single mothers get the demonisation treatment in popular culture.

Look forward to reading your thoughts.

Bill thinks the SCUM manifesto is literal!
(falls off chair laughing).

bless his little cotton socks. Bill, when you grow up someone might tell you all about satire.

ha ha ha we all know SCUM was a piss take

And anti feminists always cite Erin Pizzey

So Bill, how do you think women and men could live respectfully and happily together?

Trop Sun 05-Dec-10 21:08:37

But you weren;t talking about workload before Bill, you were talking about dangerous environments versus the office.

You are squirming out of it because you know you are talking nonsense.

I'm bored of you now.

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What are you trying to say then? People are trying to get me to guess their payrates here from what I read. My response was simple two people doing the same job should earn the same amount of money given the same workload. What's wrong with that?

A male and a female office worker get paid the same amount where I come from. A male and female plumber get paid the same amount too. But the cop certainly earns more than the office worker because they have a dangerous job. What's the problem? I said the paygap was due to facts like how men tend to do the majority of dirty and dangerous work that pay a premimum over cushy data-entry positions and the like. Which part of what I said don't you argee with?

HerBeatitude Sun 05-Dec-10 21:18:22

ha ha ha we all know SCUM was a piss take

And anti feminists always cite Erin Pizzey

So Bill, how do you think women and men could live respectfully and happily together?

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Okay, well as far as Erin Pizzey goes what has she done that I don't know about? Obviously, you have guys have a side too.

Women and men can live quite nicely together as we speak, I'm quite happy living with my gf. I don't expect her to act like some ancient female rolemodel of virtue and she doesn't expect me to be a paragon of chivalry. We split everything 50/50.

MRA's just want the same deal when it comes to government funding, cancer research and the legal system. I don't see why I should cough tax dollar up for breast cancer research when I have a grandfather dead from prostate cancer, a cancer ignored because it only affects men.

Women's groups are afraid of MRA's because they're afraid they'll lose money to competing men's groups. Even the totally legit guys who aren't just out for abit of a laugh and try to show that they're willing to work together are laughed at and are told that 50% of the population don't deserve the same services!

sethstarkaddersmum Sun 05-Dec-10 21:17:17

Bill thinks the SCUM manifesto is literal!
(falls off chair laughing).

bless his little cotton socks. Bill, when you grow up someone might tell you all about satire.

--

Yeah, I'm sure Hilter would be laughed at today if he had've been female and didn't get his way. Mein Kampf would be a book mostly forgotten about except by racists who are used to seeing people bring it up.

I'm also sure Andy Warhol was laughing when the author shot him, that was joke too right? No chance that the woman was a pyscho who happened to be a feminist?

I'd rather be demonised as a single mum than stuck with someone like YOU Bill. surely a wind up.

MRA's don't just want a fair deal.

They want women to stop demanding that we be accepted as half of humanity and that therefore human societies should be organised for our benefit as well as that of the other half of humanity.

And mostly they hate women and think we should only be allowed to participate in society, if we behave like men. As is clear from your posts Bill.

Hitler was a woman you know.

Or alterntively: it was all Hitler's mother's fault.

Just looking back to where the thread was before BH took hold, I don't think there is a human right to family as such (e.g. right to procreate). Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights offers general protection for a person?s private and family life, home and correspondence from arbitrary interference by the State - this has led to cases where the right to privacy has been extended and also where the UK has had to change legislation to permit transgendered people to change their birth certificate to allow them to marry.

I don't know that Article 8 has ever been successfully used to argue, for example, for fairness/consistency against an NHS Primary Care Trust who won't give a resident patient IVF when they might have had a different and better deal in another NHS PCT.

LadyBiscuit - I think the right refers to enjoying family life (once created e.g. right to live together can limit a state's deportation rights against illegal and criminal immigrants) and not a right to create a family.

If we can't pin it on his mum we have the next best thing - Eva Braun. On no account should a man be held to account if he does something baaadd. However, for a man, if it is a genuinely impressive achievement then, of course, he can take full credit.

Men should set up their own domestic violence refuges. That's what women had to do.

Of course they are turned away from female DV refuges - the women in their have been fucking traumatised by men and have the right to feel safe and not have men come into their safe space.

As others have said, a lot of men really resent the fact that they can't have children without the co-operation of a woman, and so some men have tried over the centuries to make it as hard as possible for women to have any choice about who impregnates them and whether they have children or not.
BillPricks is obviously a loser, whose girlfriend probably has a valve in her back, hence his slobbering resentment of women who don't take him seriously. BEcause we don't have to. Wanky spiteful men are an evolutionary dead end as the human race progresses, because women don't need them.

"As for you Posh, I'd rather not be a father at all if it meant having a child with someone like YOU. That being said, I keep a pack of RU486 in my drawer JUST in case I end up with an idiot who does try to trap me. A couple pills and BAM the baby is gone!"

Is there any reason why you wouldn't just use condoms or is your sense of self entitlement so huge that assaulting women is easier?

Bwahahah, Bill, you've never had sex at all, have you? Even sex workers would chuck your money back at you and tell you to piss off.
All bigots are complete failures, BTW. And MRA men are the biggest failures of the lot, what drives them so nuts is knowing that they are losers and that many women, as well as men, simply outclass them.

"As for you Posh, I'd rather not be a father at all if it meant having a child with someone like YOU. That being said, I keep a pack of RU486 in my drawer JUST in case I end up with an idiot who does try to trap me. A couple pills and BAM the baby is gone!"

That is the sign of a very, very sick mind.

Trop: It's more the sign of a complete bullshitting knob-end TBH. RU486 is a prescription-only drug given under medical supervision, and anyone who a)obtained it illegally and b) tried to forcibly administer it to someone else would be facing prosecution.
Like I said, Billpricks has never actually had sex. And it probably about 14, all spots and wankstains.

StuffingGoldBrass Sun 05-Dec-10 22:10:27

"BillPricks is obviously a loser, whose girlfriend probably has a valve in her back, hence his slobbering resentment of women who don't take him seriously. BEcause we don't have to. Wanky spiteful men are an evolutionary dead end as the human race progresses, because women don't need them."

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That sounds awfully sexist to me, that would be like me accusing you of being a frumpy lesbian who spends all her money plaster cast reproduction horse dildos to avoid having to deal with something shaped like a human penis and all because she got "almost" raped by a guy who brushed past her in a narrow hallway once. Sterotypes aren't that much fun, are they?

Tbh though, I have to say you're wrong about "wanky, spiteful men". There are guys out there who beat, rape and cheat on their girlfriends and they seem to be the type knocking up all those teenage girls. Just watch an episode of Jerry Springer and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Where as I'm the type who takes shitloads of precautions because I don't want to end up on one of those damned shows with the "paternity test FIVE guys at once" whores and the drug-addled, aids-riddled idiots who get them pregnant.

TheCrackFox Sun 05-Dec-10 22:16:56

"As for you Posh, I'd rather not be a father at all if it meant having a child with someone like YOU. That being said, I keep a pack of RU486 in my drawer JUST in case I end up with an idiot who does try to trap me. A couple pills and BAM the baby is gone!"

Is there any reason why you wouldn't just use condoms or is your sense of self entitlement so huge that assaulting women is easier?

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You think a guy like me doesn't use condoms? You think a guy with my views doesn't remind his girlfriend to take her pill first thing, every morning? It's all I've got, one single drop gets into a woman and you're pretty much screwed if she doesn't abort. Even with stuff like RU486 lying around, I'd still have to get her to take it. I'm very lucky my current girlfriend is as paranoid as me when it comes to becoming a parent early, she knows I have the RU486.

If you can order viagra off the net, do you think RU486 is hard to get your hands on? Who said ANYTHING about force either? She lies and says she is on the pill, I'll smile and tell her the pill is vitamin C or asprin if she get pregnant, no biggie, ey? If both acts were a felony, situations like this wouldn't happen. My religious use of condoms has saved me so far but I know that my luck will run out and I plan for the worse case scenario accordingly.

If I were to have kids tommorrow, I could only afford to put one of them through college with my life savings so far (23). I won't have kids until I can afford to put EACH of them through college and I want three. I WILL selfishly not bring children into this world without the resources to give them the chances I never had, I would certainly never have a child on social security, that's just a recipe for disaster.

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StuffingGoldBrass Sun 05-Dec-10 23:09:38

Trop: It's more the sign of a complete bullshitting knob-end TBH. RU486 is a prescription-only drug given under medical supervision, and anyone who a)obtained it illegally and b) tried to forcibly administer it to someone else would be facing prosecution.
Like I said, Billpricks has never actually had sex. And it probably about 14, all spots and wankstains.

--

More sexist sterotyping~ I suppose if I responded by calling you PMSING lesbian with a leather fetish, I'd be a sexiest pig, huh? I won't do that. :p Anyone can throw insults around, you've proven yourself every bit as rude, insulting and sexist as the men you hate.

Only 23 eh? And already a complete failure. I know you're a failure, Littlewillyhicks, because if you weren't, you wouldn't be scweeeeeeming so much about how awful uppity women are.

Oh by the way, your 'luck won't run out' if you have a vasectomy, though I imagine your personality is proving a pretty effective contraceptive anyway.

ISNT, you've taken a different angle on the human right issue.
What I was talking about re. human right to have a child is that over the years you've always had some men declaring this or that group of women unfit to procreate. The current fad is poor women (benefit scroungers).
So many wOmen have been sterilized under patriarchy for no other reason than the powers that be decided they should be. A read a case of two teenage girls who were sterilized in the UK for no reason other than spurious alleged mental health problems (which could have been depression or just something made up by a power-hungry doctor)
Race, class, mental distress.. all have been reasons to declare certain women have no right to bear children.

SGB, blinding kill at the end there

oh, just realised HerBeautitude covered the "right to child" issue back on page 7. Yes I suppose it's not a human right to have a child, it's a human right to be able to pursue procreation (within reason)

What valuable energy is being wasted on this bloke, seriously I'd rather engage with those women from Punternet.

Can't we ban a twat that talks about 'rape fantasies'.

Bill Hicks has spotted that SGB is a virgin. Very perceptive. Of course we a are all virgins, because we're too fugly to snare a man, that is why we are feminists dontchaknow.