Why sexual abuse should be taken seriously...

[tabouleh]

There is a thread at the moment where a MNer has discovered that her DS is abusing her DDs.

Very very sad.

What is fucking shocking is posters trying to trivialise this abuse as "doctors and nurses" and suggesting that the behaviour is more innocent that it seems.

I don't want that support thread de-railed.

So I have linked to here.

So yep I have form for thread about threads lets debate it here.

It's not very merciful to the victim is it?

Scallops,

That depends where you put the lock. Of course you are being merciful to the perpetrator, that is the meaning of the word. Mercy implies forgiveness of wrong, or punishing it less severely than you could.
It does not mean ignoring the victim. The victim should be praised for her courage in coming forward and should be aware that the perpetrator has been punished. Mercy merely means the punishment does not involve the police.

And yes, the lock should be on the outside of the 13 year old's door. He can use a potty overnight. Will help to illustrate the severity of that he has done.

And and and.... don't you think that in the past, paedophiles' families sometimes have tried to deal with it in the way you suggest? IE by warning them, telling them they're not allowed to abuse their brothers/ sisters anymore etc.? I wonder what their success rate is versus intensive therapy?

Herbeatitude,

Shall we have a bet whether the OP's son gets "intensive therapy"?

My bet is a stern talking to, signing the Sexual Offenders Register and agreeing that he lives with his father henceforth.

But how does your approach deal with the long term problem that this child might develop paedophile urges if he is not given the therapy he needs, not to?

My 11 year old DS btw, who has not yet reached puberty and is fairly innocent, knows this is wrong.

But he won't be abusing his sisters then Larry, that's a good thing, no?

And I suspect he will get therapy if the OP pushes for it.

HerBea - excellent post at 17:10

Do you understand that the right priority here is the safety of the victims Larry, not giving an abuser a second chance?

I'm not against giving an abuser a second chance - I'm not against mercy. But NOT at the risk of the victims being re-victimised. You don't seem to understand the importance of that - that at all costs, these girls must not be re-victimised by this boy. That is the priority here, above all other priorities.

And this is where you and millions like you, are wrong. Because you think that somehow, you can balance the welfare of all the children. In some situations you can, but in this situation you can't. And when you can't, you must come down on the side of the victim, that is the only moral position.

"Do you think being abused by your brother is not as bad as being made to account for your actions?" Exactly HerBea - hit the nail on the nead!

"The victim should be praised for her courage in coming forward and should be aware that the perpetrator has been punished." I really hope you didn't mean that to sound as patronising as it did. But the perpetrator hasn't been punished. They are still able to sexually assault the victim (when of course they aren't locked in their room or when the mother is present).

HerBeatitude,

I do get that. I am assuming that it is possible to prevent the son from abusing the daughter again. That is clearly the first and overriding priority.

But why are you so sure a solution cannot be found where the daughters are kept safe but the son is not criminalised?

You can only try to rehabilitate the perpetrator AFTER you have ensured that the victims are being protected. They are not to be the sacrifice to an experiment in parental discipline.

How are you going to keep the daughters safe?

And how are you going to keep other children safe from this boy? Are you going to ban him from playdates?

I'm not sure a solution can't be found Larry.

I jsut wouldn't risk my daughter being raped to find out.

ok, larry's solution

put a lock on the outside of the boy's door and make him use a potty overnight

get private counselling for all the children (who will be obliged, by law, under their oath, to inform the relavant authorities)

oh, and minimise downplay and ignore like crazy

genius

larry...would your plan involve locking him in his room during weekends, after school and during holidays too ?

Swallowedafly,

My only agenda is in actually thinking about how the situation might feel in RL.

I had no intention of commenting on this subject at all until I saw the cheerleading attitude of 90% of the thread. It was like: "do it, do it, come on, do it, have you done it yet". And then "you are so brave and wonderful for making the call, all your children will thank you for it". I mean, what a load of crap. I may not be an expert but I assure you the OP will be having a bloody miserable time of it. And her son certainly won't be thanking her for it, now or ever.

One poster actually suggested that she be "given" a bigger house because her family was completely dysfunctional. What world are most of you Mners living in? Do you know that the UK has NO money. Do you really think the OP's situation will be top of the SS priority list? They see tens of thousands of families with more pressing problems. And, although everyone on this board will say "sexual abuse is sexual abuse, from one touch to full on rape", the experts will have a hierarchy of dangerous situations and remedies. They do not have the luxury of infinite resources that this forum seem to think they do.

I am no expert at all but, so far, what I have predicted is exactly what has happened. When the family are rehoused in the big luxurious house that they have been advised (on MN) to apply for, when the son is in intensive therapy with a top psychiatrist and when all the family are happily settled again, I will unreservedly apologise to all of you. However, if the family is split up, the son gets no therapy at all and continues to abuse, albeit as a "looked after" child, will any of you admit that my common sense trumped your experience??

of course the woman in question will be having a thoroughly miserable time of it

it is a thoroughly miserable situation

what is the alternative ? Sweep it under the carpet and hope things sort themselves out ? Or lock him in his bedroom for the rest of his life ?

her son won't be thanking her...but her daughters will, one day...and so will her son if some help now prevents further problems

larry...I just don't understand why your "do nothing, tell no-one, keep-it-in-the-family" approach is helping anyone

Anyfucker,

There is one thing we both agree on.

It is a thoroughly miserable situation.

As you can see from my numerous posts, I never suggested "sweeping it under the carpet".

Let's see how the alternative plays out for all the participants. I am just a little (well, a lot) more cynical than most about what will happen with the state interventionist route.

There are no good solutions at all.

What I really found disturbing was what I felt was close to schadenfreude on the other thread. It was the excitement this rather sad family's predicament was generating.

All those posters who claim that they will be "thinking about you" all weekend to various posters just make me want to vomit. Most have their own families and their own lives (and if they don't, they have a problem). Let's be a little realistic. MN is an internet board. People should give nuanced and careful advice to others, not cheerlead. Within a day or two, they will have stepped aside but those with real problems will have to live with the decisions that they have made (and sometimes been virtually coerced into).

laryy,,,we live in that "interventionist" state

to try and circumvent it (in this particular miserable situation), is madness IMO

I also think you are jumping the gun re. an awful outcome of intervention. The boy is staying with his father, for now. I expect there are other times the boy has stayed with his father. The family is not "split up". Tbh, if there is a real problem with the boy, I hope the family is split up.

Also, there is no quick solution is there ? Who knows if this boy will grow up to be an offender, or whether it was experimentation gone too far ? We can't know that in a couple of days, nor even a couple of years.

So, I cannot agree with you smugly sitting back and saying "see?, I told you stoopid people it would go belly-up!"