Why sexual abuse should be taken seriously...

[tabouleh]

There is a thread at the moment where a MNer has discovered that her DS is abusing her DDs.

Very very sad.

What is fucking shocking is posters trying to trivialise this abuse as "doctors and nurses" and suggesting that the behaviour is more innocent that it seems.

I don't want that support thread de-railed.

So I have linked to here.

So yep I have form for thread about threads lets debate it here.

Is that a trick question? Only the person who carries out the attack can prevent it from happening.

As for my Q, I'm not going anywhere with it. I don't have an agenda for this discussion, I'm just thinking out loud.

Pickled -- Why is 'remaining strong' the be all and end all? Who are you trying to impress or assuage or reassure, or what is the reason being 'strong' matters?

What is 'strength' anyway in this context?

Whose interests does silence serve?

Strong enough to not remain silent for a start. Strong enough to talk to our DC about theses important issues. Strong enough to rationalise what has happened to us in a way that leaves our self-esteem intact.

I am not trying to impress anyone nor do I think anyone should remain silent about these things.

OK maybe I'm being thick here but I'm now really puzzled by what you are saying pickled.

You clearly state that women should not have to remain silent about things and OTOH you are syaing that speaking out about it with each other and reassuring everyone else that we are not alone, may lead to something bad and creates a dark space and the tone of what you were saying implied that it was a bit self-indulgent, weak and wallowing (I know that that is not intentional on your part - at least I think I know that, I assume it, but that's how it intially came across)... so I am now a bit confused as to whether you think it's a good thing or a bit of a dangerous thing to speak out.

What do you think is the downside of speaking out as in that thread? Do you think it will make people despairing, or pessimistic or man-hating or something?

Viz the strong thing, I also think it is incredibly unseemly to demand that women suddenly get "strong" (whatever that means) when they ahve been raped or sexually assaulted or abused even in minor ways.

I don't think it is right to demand that a victim of an abuse responds to it in a specific way, strong, weak, assertive, whatever - it is adding insult to injury to demand that she behave in a certain way and if she hasn't, she's somehow failed. That is pretty gobsmacking, tbh.

Despair is the dark direction that I felt it was going in. However, people on there are really thinking hard about how to stop this from continuing and I guess that that is really what I wanted to happen.

I understand what you are saying about not demanding that a victim of abuse behave in a certain way but sooner or later we all try to rationalise what has happened to us and why.

What Lenin, so I'm not supposed to feel saddened by the fact that so many many lives have been blighted by these abuses and hope for a positive rather than a negative outcome?

I am sure I'm not the only lurker on that thread who has wanted to 'fix' things.

Yes we rationalise it, in general, by going into denial about how attacked and unsafe these attacks make us feel. We pretend that it's a bit of a larf, or just some sad man being pathetic, or easy to brush off. And meanwhile the relationships we develop, the way we behave with men etc., gives the lie to our denial, because those things are affected without us realising it.

I'm not sure that rationalising it in the normal way, is a good way forward.

'....hope for a positive rather than a negative outcome?'

Surely it is a very positive thing to speak up about it? When the alternative is to remain silent after many years of silence, surely (1)breaking the silence, and (2)knowing there is a safe place in which to speak (without anyone trying to fix it or asking questions that imply that a woman somehow invited the assault) are steps in the right direction?

And even if the problem is ultimately to be fixed somehow, the scale of it must be understood first. Then all the factors and nuances that go into making it a silent epidemic, then a realisation of the way the damage ripples through the victims' lives.

It seems we have come full circle in our chat Lenin. How does one rationalise these behaviours?

People want what they want. These people who abuse are selfish beyond measure, they take what they want.

I appreciate the chat and I also realise that I am completely out of my depth coming on here. Still, the whole process has enabled me to articulate things to my DC in a way that they have been accepting of, so I must thank you all for your help with that.

If we want our DC to respect others we need to teach them about respect - we need to respect them. That is my take away message from all of this.

D'you remember that wanker on Woman's Hour who was arguing for the right of men to sexually harrass women in the street?

I thought of that today while reading that other thread. It's part of the continuum, isn't it?