Why sexual abuse should be taken seriously...

[tabouleh]

There is a thread at the moment where a MNer has discovered that her DS is abusing her DDs.

Very very sad.

What is fucking shocking is posters trying to trivialise this abuse as "doctors and nurses" and suggesting that the behaviour is more innocent that it seems.

I don't want that support thread de-railed.

So I have linked to here.

So yep I have form for thread about threads lets debate it here.

It read like they thought it was something that shouldn't be spoken about outside, and it could ruin the boys life. No regard was given to the DD's and what impact it might have on their lives if the mother just says 'they were only playing!'.

I was shocked and disgusted, however I think the OP is doing the right thing and with the vast majority of us saying what we are then she'll continue to do the right thing and have the support of us (albeit faceless names).

i hadnt thought about wether op was a regular mn or not i havent been on for long enough tho to link to other threads.

she comes across as being very responsible and capible in dealing with this, dispite its difficulty.

loopy i lurrrv gino

GG I didn't mean that she isn't a well-known poster, just that I assumed not before I started posting on the thread, and I wasn't sure what you meant that it would be different were she new. What kids of replies do you think she would have had?

I don't want to castigate this boy or to condemn him as there has been some abuse in his life perpetrated by his father. I'm not sure the moral aspect of it should come foremost in any approach to helping him, but he definitely needs help and would need it even absent the incident. There are boundary issues as well as the sexual one, the imbalance of power, the possible impulse control/compulsion aspect, the processing of previous experiences he may have suffered or may have witnessed whether in RL or on a screen -- and probably lots more.

I get the strong impression from the poster who has inspired this thread that there is a right wing political agenda behind the aspersions he has cast on public social services professionals, and also the impression that he would prefer if the whole question of sexual abuse would just disappear -- yes, willful blindness sums it up nicely.

Hi,
Just came over here to have a read of thread linked to mine.
GiganGORE Yes i am very reg MNer with halloween name still on.
I should have felt able to name change but then you get troll thrown at you. At least am half anon in Halloween name.

I think that the majority just didn't want to terrify the poor OP

No, I think it is more than that. There are plenty of posters on that thread who have pointed out the consequences of doing nothing & have done so carefully & diplomatically. With tact.

The others who refuse to believe it is nothing more than playing a game, well I believe they are ignorant to the fact that abuse DOES happen within families. Or they refuse to believe it happens so it doesn't shatter their illusions of the perfect family.

Whatever their reasons, they aren't helping the OP with their misguided 'advice'.

ithappened, i also want to echo what you say but to also add to that in actual fact some of those on the other thread who didnt want to terify tortoise and suggested that this should not be delbt with by ss actually could do more harm than good with outlandish claims that ss will break this family up. THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!

Im glad you visited this thread tortoise and i hope you sees it as further support. Tebhula, so many others and my self really are talking sence and know with great sensitivity and or knowlede that what you are doing is the best for your family and your self. Hope you make that call tomorrow with the strength and courage you have.

It was deeply depressing to see the blithe waving away of the risk to the girls of further abuse, as if that counts for absolutely nothing.

It is really sickening seeing this value for boys' lives being prioritised over those of girls, in action on Mumsnet. The scaremongering about how social workers would tear the family apart, as if that would happen anyway and the idea that it would be preferable if the boy were to grow up abusing his sisters, was really quite shocking.

Tortoise, don't be scared by the scaremongering, your family won't be torn apart, you will be helped. So glad you have support here in and RL.

I agree re the prioritising of boys over girls HB.
And the irony is, sweeping it under the carpet would do nothing to help the boy, whereas getting him the help he needs, as soon as possible, rather than letting him continue developing in a direction that could ruin his life as well as that of other people, is surely the best thing for him as well as the girls.

hope you are ok Tortoise - can I echo what everyone else has said, that I am full of admiration for the way you are dealing with this.

God that has really angered me. My mum was a social worker, working with abused children for many ywars. That poster is talking a load of crap (Larry) and I don't know what particular grudge he must have agains t SS or if it's just fueled by reading the Daily mail or some crap like that but he seriously needs to butt out of that thread because he is doing more harm than good. What an absolute fuckwit.

The thing that surprised me most about the thread - was that nobody (unless I missed it) picked up on the unusual sleeping arangements.

Children in own rooms, and mother sleeping on living room floor. I personally think that it is not right for a mother to be so selfless, and put her children's comfort so far before her own. I am surprised that others did not pick up on this.

The sleeping arrangements are very important in terms of protecting the girls in the future.

is not clear from op if girls are sharing a room or not, suspect they probably are. I slept in living room for 4 yrs, did not affect my status as mother. probly not relevent to the issue either tbh unwind.

can;t find thread you are talking about, anyone able to link?

not sure how to link thread sorry, but booyhoo has linked it weds 3 17:53. post

I think sleeping arrangements are relevant Gino -

aside from the obvious issues with protecting the girls,

if all the children sleep upstairs, the DS1 may feel that he is the authority figure there.

not so sure, my self, but fair enough point

i can sort of see where unwind is coming from. OP has stated in other thread that boys have own room and girls share (boys dont get on) if taht was teh case for me i would move myself and the girls into the biggest room and teh boys coudl still have separate in teh smaller room. that way, mum is sharing with girls at night and DS will also subconsciously see that room as not only the girls' room but as mum's room and be less inclined to trespass or lie on the beds an cross these boundaries taht have been an issue.

here's the thread

"It is really sickening seeing this value for boys' lives being prioritised over those of girls, in action on Mumsnet"

By doing nothing no-one would bebeing prioritised . Unless anyone thinks that the boy is really going to have a fantastic life after a start like this.

Good luck tortoise. Thinking of you all.

There was an article in the family guardian, where the mother was sleeping in the living room while children had the bedrooms. . SHe realised (after getting a dog and learning about hierarchies, which I think was the point of the article ) that that was undermining her position in the family.

Orm I totally agree. The problem is that some of the posters on that thread seemed to think that the boy's interests would be served by not getting him help now, and that that outweighed the interests of the girls.

When of course, getting help is in all their interests.

just posted on the other thread that on reflection I think what unwind was saying about sleeping arrangements is probably quite true and i can see where you are coming from now.

So,

What has happened?

The family are split up. The police are involved and the child will probably get a criminal record. So far there has been no "professional" help for either the son of the daughters. Kind of as I predicted.

I am really not sure what is courageous or wonderful about delegating parental responsibility to the state and stepping out of the loop. Sorry.

The straw argument of the OP on this thread is never what I suggested. It is typical of her to exaggerate and completely change what I said. I suggested to deal with it both within the family AND to involve professionals from the private sector (both paid psychiatrists if possible, or charities if not). I suspected they would tend to be more sympathetic with the OP on the other thread. So far, so true.

I never suggested IGNORING sexual abuse nor did I state that it WAS a game of doctors and nurses. I said it MAY be more innocent than it at first appeared and that the OP might want to find out before going to the SS. My subjunctive tense was ignored by the OP on this thread because she has an agenda.
My argument would have stood equally had it been a 13 year old girl and a 6 year old boy. The idea that I somehow wanted to prioritise boys over girls is plain ridiculous.

I just feel that unless someone in my family had crossed a line, the support for all my family would be within the family. That line would be pretty much rape or murder, not precursor behaviours to the above.