Why sexual abuse should be taken seriously...

[tabouleh]

There is a thread at the moment where a MNer has discovered that her DS is abusing her DDs.

Very very sad.

What is fucking shocking is posters trying to trivialise this abuse as "doctors and nurses" and suggesting that the behaviour is more innocent that it seems.

I don't want that support thread de-railed.

So I have linked to here.

So yep I have form for thread about threads lets debate it here.

I understand that, but I was responding to your "short of rape or murder" comment above. So I am not confusing them, I am questioning your judgement that nearly all issues can be dealt with within the family.

Also you seem to not be listening to the posters reminding you that not everyone can afford "their own chosen experts". Most people can't in fact.

Ah yes larry I see that you said:

"Please do not respond as I shall no longer be posting in the "feminism" section or reading it."

So it seems I pulled you back over here.

Still its way better than having this all out on the other thread.

Leningrad,

If that is the case I am wrong. However, it is the crass idea that I am motivated by some idea that sexual assault is somehow OK that offends.

And, I am still sure that, if you went some of the way towards dealing with the problem yourself, then you would get better treatment when it does get reported. You will already have a workable solution in place rather than have every step dictated by a bureaucrat.

I suspect that 9/10 of the posters who were shoving the OP into the arms of the SS would have thought long and hard about treating their own 13 year old sons like that in the same circumstances.

Elephants,

"I understand that, but I was responding to your "short of rape or murder" comment above"

That comment was specifically about one's children, not one's spouse. Please attack me for things that I am saying, not things that I am not saying.

I do not think that you think that sexual assault is somehow OK but I think that you cannot recognise it (given a pretty clear description) and that you were trivialising it.

This is what happens by society all the time every day to women and children - you are here representing that view.

Have you seen this thread.

Don't trivialise sexual assault!

"I just feel that unless someone in my family had crossed a line, the support for all my family would be within the family. That line would be pretty much rape or murder, not precursor behaviours to the above."

Sorry didn't get your nuance that this was just about children rather than one's spouse.

Still disagree with it though!

BTW - any chance of an apology from you = MN deleted your post because you made a personal attack on me.

"If that is the case I am wrong."
Why do you doubt that is the case larry?

"However, it is the crass idea that I am motivated by some idea that sexual assault is somehow OK that offends."

But you are quite happy for it to go on in families without it being reported to the authorities. Why is that?

Leningrad,

"This is especially important in cases where the parents can't, won't or don't want to act."

I sense that you and some others are deliberately ignoring my point. There are not two options only:

1/ Do nothing

2/ Go straight to police and SS

There is a third option. Deal with the issue within the home. Make sure the son knows how wrong it is. Make sure the daughter knows that if it EVER happens again, she must speak out and that it is right to do so. Also take practical steps such as installing door locks and changing the sleeping arrangements. I would make it abundantly clear that, should it ever happen again, the police would be involved.

I thought your 3rd option was getting counselling etc for all concerned?

Tabouleh,

Sure, I am happy to apologise for the personal attack.

"FFS larry - you are a piece of work you really are"

Care to apologise for the above in the still undeleted post of yours?

but...but...once is too many times! what of the little girls who may not be so confident to "tell" next time? Should 6 year olds be allowed doors that lock on the inside - surely not?

13 year olds KNOW how wrong it is. I don't care what you said above about those with a lower mental age, there is no indication that this is the case here. He is trying his luck touching his little sisters and hoping to get away with it. Hopefully this kind of abusive behaviour can be stopped in its tracks right now.

Tabouleh,

I cannot say exactly what I would do. I have a 17 month old son and no-one in my family has ever sexually abused one another. To be fair, nor can you or anyone else unless they have been in exactly that position.

I would have to make a judgement based on what support individual members of my family needed and what they were actually like as people. I would take a lot of advice from wise friends in RL (not on a message board) and seek professional help as required. My feeling is that I would like to retain control of the situation but use outside help I trusted. My priority would be to protect all my children.

"There is a third option. Deal with the issue within the home. Make sure the son knows how wrong it is. Make sure the daughter knows that if it EVER happens again, she must speak out and that it is right to do so. Also take practical steps such as installing door locks and changing the sleeping arrangements. I would make it abundantly clear that, should it ever happen again, the police would be involved."

But it is illegal. From another thread:
"sexual assault is when a man or a woman touchs another person, male or female in a sexual way without that person's consent. The maximum sentence for sexual assault is 10 years imprisonment."

Not reporting to the authorities sends the message that the law doesn't matter and the perpetrator will not have to answer to society and the law for his actions.

Sorry I called you "a piece of work" larry.

I have said what I wanted to say and I called you on your attitude on that thread and I'm glad to find that many agreed with me.

I will try and find something more positive to do like looking at the UN End Violence Against Women website.

And even if there was an issue with the 13 year old's mental age, i.e. a previously unknown (as the OP doesn't seem to know about it) developmental delay of some sort, isn't that all the more reason to get professional assessment and help?

Locks on bedroom doors is not the way to go, no one should have to be sleeping behind a locked door out of fear in their own family home - certainly not a six year old girl!

Indeed Lenin - but I am getting the impression larry is doubting your word on that! Not sure why!

Scallops,

"Not reporting to the authorities sends the message that the law doesn't matter and the perpetrator will not have to answer to society and the law for his actions."

No, it does not. Surely you feel that you can get the message through to your own child that they have done something seriously wrong and illegal but that, AS A PARENT, you are going to be merciful and give them one last chance.

larry - but that means you are being merciful to the perpetrator i.e. the person in the wrong but ignoring the rights of the victim i.e. the person who hasn't done anything wrong.

And to advocate putting locks on doors?? You really think that sends out a positive message to either the victim or the perpetrator?

"no-one in my family has ever sexually abused one another"

How do you know that? Most people who are sexually abused don't tell anyone. It gets swept under the carpet. I would never say definitively that no one in my family has ever sexually abused anyone else, because I simply don't know. To my knowledge, no one has, but that doesn't mean they haven't, because I'm not omniscient.

You would give a child an abuser one last chance to abuse his sister? Really? You would put his right to have a second chance above her right not to be abused by him? Really? Do you think being abused by your brother is not as bad as being made to account for your actions?