Are men confused about their role in society nowadays?

[poshsinglemum]

My friend's bloke reckons they are and if so, is this to do with the feminsit movement?

I do hope so.

SNORT

It is definitely feminism's fault. Definitely.

Maybe they're confused about their role because there isn't a world war on. Perhaps the kind of man who is easily confused finds it easier if he is given a uniform, or asked to spear a gazelle.

I wouldn't think confusion is the right word - maybe they know all too well and are just being abit disingenous? All they have to do is half the work and half the pleasure that society has to offer. That's not confusing.

Only dim men are confused about their role in society.

their role in society is to live their lives peacably, treat people respectfully, provide for their dependants fairly, and not leave their shit lying around for someone else, who doesn't have The Great And Almighty Penis, to pick up.

I dont tink men are confused about their role. I think it is society that is confused about what it actually wants from men and issues all sorts of contradictory signals.

For example, in the arena of parenting it is all over the place.

On the one hand it wants men to 'provide for their dependents fairly' (ie go out to work) and yet also wants them to look after children but hardly accepts men being SAHP. It still expects women to take the bulk of childcare responsibilities by assuming that in a divorce that the women should almost always have custody of the children and does not allow men to share maternity/paternity leave.

It wants men to take an equal share in parenting and yet has attitudes, systems, processes, laws that contradict that.

Yes but what is "society"?

I think people who say that men are confused by their role, are generally people who think men shouldn't have to pick their own socks up and do the vacuuming tbh.

Well said BeenBeta

BeenBeta wrote - "On the one hand it wants men to 'provide for their dependents fairly' (ie go out to work) and yet also wants them to look after children but hardly accepts men being SAHP. It still expects women to take the bulk of childcare responsibilities by assuming that in a divorce that the women should almost always have custody of the children and does not allow men to share maternity/paternity leave."

Feminism still has some way to go to overcome such examples of patriarchal resistance.

apart from the wise words said already, a lot of what confusion there may be is seeded in a 'more equal society' where there is evidence of this ( and there is a lot of it, but not comprehensively so) and the intro. of new technologies and an emphasis on building better relations and networking. Children and women 'do' the latter much better than blokes do them.

as for feminism, or more broadly, an increase in women;s rights, then probably yes, in terms of the equality issues, but not so re the techy bits - that is driven by capitalism, which is often the nemisis of equality, for all.

all IMVHO, and off the top of my male head!

• "On the one hand it wants men to 'provide for their dependents fairly' (ie go out to work) and yet also wants them to look after children but hardly accepts men being SAHP"

Actually that's true of women too. Especially lone mothers - they're supposed to go out to work and look after their children, and mothers who do have partners but are SAHMs, are generally portrayed as yummy mummies ladies who lunch skiving.

But people don't talk about women being confused about their roles. Just about them being selfish.

hmm..the whore in bed/angelic carer etc in the kitchen.

am beginning to invest in beenbeta's analysis.

Don't know about that Pan, the whore in the bedroom/ cook in the kitchen etc.roles, don't actually contradict each other, they can theoretically merge seamlsessly together. Not so with SAHM/ career woman. As BB says, society wants men to look after their children and to work - and if they do either one or the other, they don't get condemned for it (unless they are being a SAHD by means of state benefits, which is another discussion altogether).

When men look after their own children when they come back from work, they are lauded as brilliant fathers, whereas women are simply perceived to be normal mothers, nothing brilliant or out of the ordinary. And whichever one women do, there will be condemnation from the gallery from one side or the other, wherease men's work/ childcare choices are more or less respected unless they are dependent on state benefits.

Perhaps cavemen are confused about their place in society.

yes Lenin - I use it all the time. Kind of habit.

HerB - I meant it as a clear and direct contradiction, though yes they can merge v. happly...

I do go with colditz's notion as well, and always have - the expectation is that you are civil, ulimately. How you express that civility is a matter of taste. As most things in life are.

Lenin - why the setting up of a conflict? Sorry for being a bit , but the accusation/implication deserved it, imo. Will desist from such.

Cook in the kitchen, hostess in the drawingroom, whore in the bedroom, is a stock phrase Lenin, I'm not sure where it originally comes from, doubtless some male fantasy of what a woman should be...