Are men confused about their role in society nowadays?

[poshsinglemum]

My friend's bloke reckons they are and if so, is this to do with the feminsit movement?

well, tbh I didn't say that I'd give it more consideration Lenin, and I didn't take your objection on board. Infact I threw it overboard, though not in a very stylish manner albeit.

it is a well-known cliche, but for your own reasons you chose to be rather spikey about it, to which I regretably responded.

which is all a bit silly when looking at the thread title. Need to be off out to shop and enjoy the sun. Sorry Lenin for this episode, and hope it doesn't sour things too much.

Pan.....why not just explain why you used that word (because it's a commonly used phrase in certain circles) and move on? You are sounding a bit eeeewwww teenage.

when I said "Provide for dependants fairly" I didn't actually mean only financially, and it's interesting that this assuption has been made.

I meant to provide an equal shar of the child's care, clothing, food, security, education. Everything that comes with raising a child.

Surely men as a whole don;t have a role, I am hoping society has now moved on so that we have the common sense to look at our situation to work out what our role is at a specific moment in time.

M husband is ver aware of what his role is, he would be a tad thick not to. As a rule I try not to set up home with thick men

oh dear. As HB indicated, I used it as a sort of short hand/example of the 'contradictory expectations' put on women, which is relevant ot this thread. The suggestion is that men are 'confused' about their role, whereas women have had ot manage the expections put on them by men for millenia.

really wasn't expecting the reaction to something that is so self-evident. No offensive inteneded whatsoever.

teenage? okayyy. Whatever.

And you have to remember that we are all more sensitive about these sorts of phrases trotted out as if acceptable. Even if it's been used for a millennia it still equates a woman who enjoys sex as a whore, unless her partner actually expects to pay.

Thinking about this bit more...

You know the whole SAHM/WOHM debate that rages on MN with women feeling guilty enraged, conflicted and confused about what role they should play.

Maybe men are beginning to feel a bit of that too. Its progress of a kind to a sort of equality I suppose.

I think many men feel inadequate because our parenst generation raised boys to be real men, breadwinners, strong and without weakness and when they become parents they are ill equipped to be all things.....we, as parents, can be more true to our boys and ensure the adjustment is done before they reach adulthood.

Isn't the context of the phrase (it is a common phrase used to describe the hideous patriarchal expectations on women) obvious in a discussion on confusion over societal roles?

Anyway on to the subject.
Men do get messed up about their role in society, but the idea that feminism is to blame is ridiculous.

It is akin to a plantation owner in the late 19th century deep south being confused about his role in society after the emancipation of the slaves. Yes his traditional role is gone, but that does not imply that the role was a good or acceptable one.
However despite his role being officially gone his society will still pressure him to retain the values and lifestyle he had prior to the shift. He will be pressured to be both the slave-owning aristocrat AND a modern forward-thinking human being who accepts all people are worth respect. Two concepts that are hard to reconcile.

Sorry, strong example but I think men who claim to be "confused about their role" need to remember that it is because the role that society often tells them they should do is such unacceptable rubbish.

elec...great post.

It's the wide gap of expectation in our patriarchal society that some have of women. They want you to be good in bed, (using some of the words that were used in practical parenting) dirty, bad girl, naughty sex ie whore like expertise and then a domestic servant. Have you not heard it before? Or like me, just are boggled as to why people still use the expression or have those expectations?

It's the 'madonna/whore' expectation - a woman will be freely available to perform all sorts of sexual acts for her 'man' on demand, and then brush herself off and tend to the 'virtuous' tasks of child-rearing and household duties. Until the next time blokes wants her to be the whore. Based in the patriarchial power dynamic thing.

I seem to have made a lazy assumption about understanding of this, for which I do genuinely apologise.

men being confused about their role isn't new is it? at least ten/ fifteen/ twenty years ago there was plenty of academic angsting over men's role. i see it in the same way that women are told they must be perky bosomed airbrushed successful businesswomen whilst raising children in the glossies.

you only have to look at men's mags to see they are supposed to be firm of six-pack, ever-ready to roger the nearest oil-slicked siliconed twin, and have a house full of expensive ridiculous electronic gadgetry that presumably you need a good wage to pay for. but us women will complicate the message by trying to get them to do, y'know, childcare and cooking.

i'd be confused, too. (if i didn't think that by buying into 'nuts' you pretty much remove yourself from sensible consideration in any case.)

I think we're ALL confused (as others have said and I am just summing up) about all our roles in the face of capitalism.

I don't think, in the next, ooh 5 years, say, that any of this is going to get easier. But it's not so much to do with feminism, necessarily.

Admire your brevity and accuracy, dittany.

LOL at it not being much to do with feminism.

Feminism is the only reason the question is even raised.

It is amazing how much denial there is, about the role of feminism in our confusion (or lack thereof).

"Are men confused about their role in society nowadays?"

Sounds a bit like a crap Daily Mail article?

Maybe men are starting to realise just how priviledged they are and this is confusing them?

Maybe men are confused about why they do less of the household chores and have more leisure time than women.

I just want to pick up on something pan said;

"an emphasis on building better relations and networking. Children and women 'do' the latter much better than blokes do them."

This looks like a lazy stereotype to me. Have you read anything about evo-sexism - biological determinism - nurture v nature?

"This looks like a lazy stereotype to me. Have you read anything about evo-sexism - biological determinism - nurture v nature?"

nope. Can't say I have. At all.

Nonetheless.I don't have to in order to assert this. It isn't a lazy stereo-type, or any other 'type'. Stereo-types are often easy and mistaken. This statement is accurate and well founded. Are you saying something different? That blokes ARE better at building better relationships and networking? I didn't think so!

not sure what your point is, tbh. Do illuminate.