"Wifework"

[jamaisjedors]

I would have liked to post this in cognitive dissonance but it's all a bit erm... muddled and off track there so I thought I'd start a new thread based on this comment from the thread:

"Sakura Wed 29-Sep-10 11:48:51

... Read "wifework" by Maushart and you'll find that a husband increases the workload for a woman."

DH is away for 2 days, and this evening I have SO much more time on my hands.

Is this true for everyone?

Is it just because there isn't someone else to talk to?

Surely the workload (2 DSs house, garden etc.) should have doubled?

Any thoughts ?

I agree with this:

"if you do things your way without interference you are more likely to complete tasks more quickly and to your standards or ideas of how it should be done"

as a possible explanation in this household.

I think I need to read the book.

Because my DH is never sitting around with his feet up while I scurry around sweeping the floor.

I think in our case, since moving to a bigger house with a huge garden and a vegetable patch, and having children, I have gradually taken over a lot of the household tasks and DH does all the maintenance and garden stuff.

It's a very stereotypical division of labour but I HATE gardening and would do anything to get out of it.

There is also that societal pressure which assumes that the children/house/housework are my responsibility, even if we both try to fight that.

In fact, a year or so ago, I did an online calculation to see who was doing the most work in our house - it factored in childcare, and all the different jobs around the house.

DH came out as working more than me .

But I don't think wifework comes down to just housework, especially in a couple who both work full-time (as we do).

"the man will not listen because he can;t get over the idea that what his wife has to say is not very important, because she's only a 'woman'."

i don't know any men like this in my circle of friends, and i wouldn't be marrying my partner if he gave off these vibes.

yes, sometimes he is self-absorbed about his work and finds it hard to listen about mine but i am aslo sometimes self-absorbed and don't listen to him. ultimately though i am marrying him because he is my rock and best friend and i would rather talk to him about my hopes and dreams and fears than anybody else.

are you all telling me that this is all going to change, either when we walk down the aisle or when our fist child is born?

Sorry that I don't have time to read the whole thread, but just wanted to say that I read this book in the months leading up to our wedding, and I'm so glad that I did!!!

It crystallised a lot of my thinking about our relationship and how I wanted our marriage to be. We've been married nearly 8 years now, and I find that I get as much enjoyment out of it as ever I did, and it's partly because I was inspired by this book to act all the time as an equal partner in our marriage. The book taught me to see what unfairness looks like, and not to accept it just because I'm a woman.

I'm equally glad that I read Naomi Wolf's Misconceptions before I had DD last year, because - again - she opened my eyes to the sorts of inequalities that can arise within a previously equal partnership as a result of a child.

I don't remember DH and I ever having conversations about roles or equality - I think my expectations of him have been apparent in my behaviour and he has accepted them. His respect for me is demonstrated in the fact that we work together to bring up our daughter and keep the house going. We probably have far more conversations about what we're having for dinner or who's taking DD to nursery than most couples, but it's the minutiae of our daily life that bonds us, and it's important to us that we share it.

In return, of course, I think he's amazing....

Dont worry fluffles I have never met a man who thinks the way SGB described some men. Not saying they dont exist but definitely isnt something that happens to nice men. I have never met anyone that expressed attitudes like that in a couple.

I read (on about p.3) someone saying it's unusual if you and your DH really do do 50:50. I think we do. I have a bit of a bad feeling that he probably does more than me and I've been trying to pick up a bit.

But we don't have children, so I am quite nervous about it all going pear-shaped then.

Btw, sunny, I can't get over the fact your husband 'praises' you when you do stuff around the house!

Does that not make you want to slap him?!

He sends me text messages saying thank you so much for doing the tidying. really appreciate it love u etc. I love it but I am a soppy twat. This is nowhere near the cheesiest thing he sends me lol .

I think its a really nice thing to do. You tell the people at work thanks and praise them for a job done well when cleaning so why not at home? I do at work when we all have to clean the workplace. I always say thanks so much for helping me today to clean the bathroom or to do the tidying. Youve done it really well etc. My friends say it to me at work to. It makes you feel like you are appreciated imo. What is the difference between doing that and doing it to your partner? It all depends on your personality type though on whether it suits you though.

we say thank you to each other for doing jobs around the house.
as long as you both do the thanking it's not an issue, is it?

Elephants - I got it for a friend when she got married and I think it pissed her off
She and her dh have a very equal relationship as far as I can see but they would have done anyway.
to be fair though, she was going all gooey and girly and 'I'm thinking about changing my name!' before the wedding, so she deserved it!

Ah, well, maybe it is just me, but I'm uncomfortable with the terminology. To me, 'praise' is for small children - it's inherently patronizing to praise an adult for doing their fair share of the clearing up.

That's my automatic feeling - not sure how logical it is though; DH and I do tend to thank each other for food, so perhaps I'm just having an irrational reaction to the terminology.

You would praise someone for a good job if they were doing the garden, painting or doing DIY. Why wouldnt you praise someone for doing the washing up or the cleaning? To me yeah its the fair share but its still nice someone is doing it. I do the same to him.

I think a big thing in marriage is when someone doesnt feel appreciated and even if it sounds lame I think its nice to say it even for the little things as you dont forget how much you do for each other as time goes by.

No, I don't think I would praise someone for doing DIY/gardening.

You may be right in that I could be falling into the opposite trap of not valuing these skills and not giving them the recognition they deserve, but I don't think so.

In a work context, I'd praise my students (and my teacher praises me), but those are hierarchical relationships. I wouldn't 'praise' a colleague for a well-written paper or for sending me some useful articles.

I find it strange you wouldnt praise your colleagues on a good paper. Our top boss (who doesnt actually work in the setting) is like that and we hate it. She never praises us for the cleaning, childcare or the work on the courses we do. We hate it as it seems like she doesnt appreciate us and care. Thats why we all do it between each other as we know how much we appreciate what we all do to work together and how if they didnt contribute things would be miserable. Its still their fair share but its still nice to say it and we think she is a right miserable one for never saying it! I suppose its just how you interpret things.

With my husband we started texting each other the appreciative messages as when we met as we were so young we couldnt do anything. I watched him use a drill for the first time and paint a room. I was actually genuinely impressed as he had never done it before. He was genuinely impressed when I managed to cook a dinner. I suppose it sounds stupid to some people but thats why I say it as I know the effort he puts in and vice versa.

is it better if you call it 'thanking' instead of 'praising'?

Also if a colleague of mine read one of my uni papers and didnt praise it. I probably would of gone home and cried! I would of thought that meant it was awful and have been gutted.

Yes, I think you're right, seth and sunny, I am just reacting to the term. I think thanking someone is quite different from praising them though. At least to me.

sunny, if I read someone's paper I'd tell them I liked it, or what I thought was good about it (and what was bad, obviously) - but to me 'praise' is more like saying, 'ooh, didn't you do well!'.

Semantics, I guess. Sorry, I've derailed the thread a bit here.

Btw, I just noticed ... sunny, I said I wouldn't praise my colleagues, although my teacher would praise me, because that's a hierarchical relationship.

And you replied saying it was strange I wouldn't praise my colleagues because your boss doesn't praise you and you don't like it.

I didn't actually pick up on that initially so maybe it is a minor thing - but actually, you did almost prove my point there! You automatically think of a boss/subordinate relationship when you think of praising someone, which is not how you'd want your marriage to be.

No I dont automatically think of a boss/subordinate relationship I just think she isnt nice or a kind person and everyone else who is at the same level at me is a nice and kind person.

Maybe I worded it wrong but I think its just a nice thing to do. I just think it means you never forget how much the person does for you and vice versa even when you have been married a fair few years. As soon as you start taking each other for granted its all down hill from there imo.

Sunny, I've been thinking about you.

Now, don't take this the wrong way, but it doesn't sound like either of you do a huge amount of cleaning, cooking or other housework.
Which is how me and DH were when we first got together (I still detest cleaning the bathroom ).
As we've grown up, had a child etc. we want the house nicer and to be more organised, and it has fallen to me to do that work.
I've been doing less lately, and you can tell.

So 50/50 is all good and well, but 50% of the bare minimum isn't actually a great deal of housework.

We do keep it tidier than it sounds! Tomorrow is my husbands day off until 3pm when he starts his volunteer placement so he does all the cleaning of the kitchen, bathroom, mops the floors, does the washing up, takes all the washing to my brothers and does it up there and makes the place pretty for the weekend whilst I am at work with our daughter so when I come back he is out at work and the place is perfect and the weekend begins!

Usually Fridays the place is perfect, the weekend it is nice, Monday and Tueday I keep it lovely, Wednesday my washing up builds up and I start spending longer on the computer as I cant be bothered to move, Thursday complete mess in the kitchen and takeaway tea! Then it starts all over again. Its the way it is with young kids though so no point in worrying about it.

The living room is always pristine and I hoover it daily no matter how tired I am as its my sanctuary and I dont let anything get out of place as it puts me in a mood.

wasting, I don't have children so perhaps I shouldn't make the comparison, but DH and I do 50:50 and our place is clean, and we do fairly labour-intensive cooking too (with some takeaways mixed in!).

What I notice with my mum, is that she does about 90% of the housework and, yes, things slide. My parents' house is, to be honest, filthy and mouse-infested, and every time I go there I itch to clear up coffee spills, sticky floors, and to waste stinking washing-up cloths. But because she and my dad don't recognize that any of this could ever be his job, they just assume that a house must be that messy for some reason other than that mum is doing virtually all of the work and holding down a job that she spends around 30 hours a week on. It still exhausts her doing a pretty inadequate amount of housekeeping.

Very good point LittleRedDragon.

Its always going to be the one who cares most about something that does it more because if you dont care and dont see the point in it then there is no incentive to do it. Thats what I find anyway.

I think Sunny has a great attitude towards housework. I believe a good deal of time is spent doing unnecessary housework. Doesn't Germaine Greer call it the 'Tyranny of Housework'

Some housework needs to be done though, whether you want to or not, for health reasons.