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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

"Wifework"

214 replies

jamaisjedors · 29/09/2010 22:04

I would have liked to post this in cognitive dissonance but it's all a bit erm... muddled and off track there so I thought I'd start a new thread based on this comment from the thread:

"Sakura Wed 29-Sep-10 11:48:51

... Read "wifework" by Maushart and you'll find that a husband increases the workload for a woman."

DH is away for 2 days, and this evening I have SO much more time on my hands.

Is this true for everyone?

Is it just because there isn't someone else to talk to?

Surely the workload (2 DSs house, garden etc.) should have doubled?

Any thoughts ?

OP posts:
Sakura · 30/09/2010 10:14

but you gave examples of 2 women you know personally who lied about rape

and of loads of single women you know personally who cry on your shoulder that they want to be married, even though you are a smugmarried

So it's not just the topic of marriage, It's every single feminist topic, you're right there arguing why feminism is unecessary in all areas of life

TheBossofMe · 30/09/2010 10:21

Oh, OK, I must have missed those posts from Sunny, sorry, see your point now, Sakura

sunny2010 · 30/09/2010 10:22

I am not discussing that on here that was another thread. I have known 2 girls that cried rape one but what has this got to do with this subject? Thats from the other thread.

I am saying on this thread the thing to do is either set the precedence early on or give encouragment. Nagging will not change people and I think that is why this results in arguments for many couples. It isnt an argument with my husband as he always just gently encourages or is positive. I never listen to my mum when she comes over as she nags me so I switch off. The way to get someone to comply is be appreciative when they make the efforts and even though a person might find something easy and straightforward the other person might genuinely have never done it.

I was like this as people think any idiot can.... but as I had never tried I got really scared of doing things that someone might find easy. I found things are genuinely daunting if you grow up and never have done them so it put me off doing them when I got married.

sfxmum · 30/09/2010 10:23

regarding OP I don't think it is necessarily that men make more work, I just think it is normal human interaction

if you do things your way without interference you are more likely to complete tasks more quickly and to your standards or ideas of how it should be done

now accommodating someone else's presence and way they see fit to complete tasks can be a challenge but I don't think it has anything to do with the other person being a husband, unless of course he is a complete slob/ pampered baby/et

foreverastudent · 30/09/2010 10:27

I think sakura has hit the nail on the head with" its not how your marriage compares to other womens but how it compares to your husbandssome women think theyve got great dps, when they compare them to other dps. But this doesnt take into account how ridiculously low the benchmark is.

Sakura · 30/09/2010 10:27

TBOM, I began to be Hmm with sunny when she and a male poster whose user name is Footlong Hmm began agreeing with each other that I hold the feminist views I do because of my dysfunctional childhood, or over-privileged childhood, despite the fact that neither of them know about my childhood, and that my views are standard feminist views

happysmiley · 30/09/2010 10:27

oranges, one of the points she makes is that men think that their wife is their best friend. Women tend to have best friends that are other women. This is because men use their wives as sounding boards and share their problems with them. However, men don't listen to their wives problems so women tend to form strong supportive relationships with other women.

In my relationship I knew that I had been complaining for some time that when I tried to talk about me (either simple things like sharing an anecdote about my day or bigger ticket items like career, family, health etc) the conversation would stop abruptly or change back to DH. The book just helped me put it together and understand it in a wider context.

Like I said above, even now DH is trying to listen to me, he finds it difficult and almost can't help but turn the conversation back to him.

Sakura · 30/09/2010 10:29

Exactly, foreverastudent So there's no point feeling grateful your husband does the ironing and your neighbour's husband doesn't, when you do far more wifework than him overall.

TheBossofMe · 30/09/2010 10:41

Sakura - I see! Footlong is exposing himself somewhat on another thread, true colours shining through.

oranges · 30/09/2010 10:41

what seems to have helped a bit, is that I have now said on a few occassions - "I need to talk to someone and you are obviously not interested, so I'm buggering off for the evening/weekend to visit a mate, leaving you with the kids." But I can't help feeling thats a bit drastic when what i want is for him to listen to me.

TheBossofMe · 30/09/2010 10:43

Good for you, oranges - its only by challenging such behaviour that we can hope to change it.

happysmiley · 30/09/2010 10:45

oranges, do you go off and see your friend? Or does the threat make him listen to you? Are you still listening to all his problems?

sunny2010 · 30/09/2010 10:49

oranges - I recommend you allocate time so one night is yours for the whole night or two nights for a few hours etc and vice versa. It all depends on work schedules and what you enjoy but make definite arrangements at the start of the week and stick to them. That way nothing is sprung on the other one and they can make their plans to and you can also allocate family time.

happysmiley · 30/09/2010 10:51

sunny, how will that help oranges get her husband to actually listen to her?

oranges · 30/09/2010 10:56

I do go off to meet the friend. He does also listen to me a bit more when I talk, but it is still very heavily skewed towards me listening to him. Its easier now that I'm on maternity leave, as he genuinely is interested in what the children do. But I know I'l need a sounding board, and will have less time to go out to meet friends, when I go back to work, and I want to get that resolved now.

sunny2010 · 30/09/2010 11:01

Sorry only read that last bit and missed oranges first one! Maybe ornages he feels frustrated because at least you have the option to quit as not as many people thinks it is weird if a woman quits work if she can afford it. Whereas if a man quits then he is a bum and a waste of space.

Maybe its just frustrating him as he wishes he had the option to quit. I think maybe tempers are getting frayed as you are both working stressful jobs with kids and it might be getting on top of you both.

oranges · 30/09/2010 11:06

er, why do i have the option to quit? When I stayed at home, people treated me with much less respect than they do now. So yes, women can be made to feel a bum and waste of space for not working too. We earn roughly the same - he could quit if he wants to.

happysmiley · 30/09/2010 11:16

Because his job is so much more important than yours. Grin

Does he recognise that he doesn't listen to you or does he refuse to even admit it?

SolidGoldBrass · 30/09/2010 11:21

Sunny, the problem is that the man will not listen because he can;t get over the idea that what his wife has to say is not very important, because she's only a 'woman'.
Your H, you say, is supportive, etc etc etc, and I;m sure everyone;s happy for you but many men are not. They are absolutely convinced, deep down, that they are the important ones in the family, and when their wives complain about their lack of contribution to the household chores, or their inability to take turns listening rather than just talking about themselves and expecting their wives to listen, the men say 'Yes dear, I'm sorry, I'll change' and then do nothing, because they don't actually want to change and dont see why they should.

dinosaur · 30/09/2010 11:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

sunny2010 · 30/09/2010 11:27

Going off SGBs post, I have no experience of men like this but if he is like this I think its best to leave him. If someone wouldnt listen to you and think they are better than you then I doubt they will change personally.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 30/09/2010 11:28

My friend's getting married next year - should I get her this book? (Read an extract and it sounds interesting) Or would that be the end of our friendship? Shock

oranges · 30/09/2010 11:30

I'm not leaving anyone. I love my husband and he's not a moron. We just need to find ways to accomodate and deal with each other's foibles and grow together. Which is what threads like this can be for.

celticfairy101 · 30/09/2010 11:35

Totally agree with SGB on this. Many men still see themselves as the 'head' of the household, a CEO in a way. The wife is merely the PA.

Men who behave like this always prefer the status quo never to change. It's their way or the highway.

happysmiley · 30/09/2010 11:42

E&M, I wish someone had bought me the book before I got married. I don't think it would have changed anything, but I would have been so much more aware.

I really noticed the difference between how I had dealt with domestic work (where I knew about all the pitfalls and made sure the balance was in check) and the emotional work (where I didn't and allowed the balance to swing massively in his favour).

But if you do give a copy, make sure she knows that you aren't doing it as a slight against her specific choice of spouse but more as a general warning about the pitfalls of marriage.