Ms or Mrs?

[ovumahead]

OK, all you intelligent articulate women here, help me! I just got married recently. I'd never really considered being a Mrs, to be honest I didn't put much thought in to it (?). When it came to changing my name on everything, I couldn't stand being a Mrs, so I put Ms on everything. I thought, well, women have fought for this, so why the hell not? Why should everyone know what my marital status is? (Besides, I'll be a Dr next year so it won't matter for too long...)

Apart from the contradiction, perhaps, in changing my name to my husband's (I did put a lot of thought in to that, and did want to, for complex personal reasons!), I don't think it's a big deal to be Ms or Mrs. I was Ms before on most things anyway. So why change?

I didn't discuss this with my husband, but it came up in passing when a letter came addressed to me as Mrs (obviously a mistake!). He asked me, light-heartedly, whether I was a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do find a lot of blokeish humour quite funny at times, and while I can see it wasn't a long, considered response from him, I did find myself giving him a brief lecture on why I'd chosen to do that. But I sounded like a hairy armpitted lesbian.

Now I'm left wondering - how can one overthrow these collectively damaging quips, if one sounds like a cliché when doing so?

And does anyone have a feminist opinion on the Ms or Mrs thing?

Oh good, usually when drunk I make an arse of myself!

Piscesmoon, I can see why someone would like to unify their family under one name but why is it almost always the husbands surname? I have no genetic link to my ILs and my children DO have a genetic link to my parents.

I sometimes think it would be nice if fathers passed their name to their sons and mothers to their daughters but with four boys that still wouldn't be much good to me!

Why are so many of you on here angry about the fact that many women still choose to become Mrs Hisname?

I don't care what title anyone has. I am a Mrs and happy to be so. I certainly don't feel like my husband's chattel.

Although the term MS first appeared in the 1970s, it wasn't widely used until the 1990s. I got married in 1981 and I never thought about being a Ms or keeping my maiden name. My husband's name is shorter, has one less syllable and is easier to spell.

Who's angry Bunbaker?

Someone several threads ago. I'm not trailing through them again. I find it interesting reading though.

It is interesting, and I really like reading other people's perspectives on it, whatever decision they've made. Personally I sometimes feel sad that so much of the history of our mothers and grandmothers disappears because of name-changes making women harder to track through history.

But I think it's a bit misleading to say "so many of you on here" are angry about women's decisions, on the basis that one person said something on another thread. It looks like you're playing up to the idea of "angry feminists", when this has been such a good-natured thread with plenty of :) and hardly any .

I think that it is much easier to track family history when people follow a traditional pattern, it will be a nightmare in years to come because it will be anyone's guess which name was chosen. I don't think it matters-things change over the course of time.

I'm not angry.

But I am pretty baffled by how many people change their names/titles on marriage though.

Individuals all seem to have their own reasons (romance, single family unit name, wish to distance from estranged father etc..) but I don't understand why the majority still choose this option.

Perhaps it is because they want to stick with the old tradition. I can't explain why I did, except that when we got married 29 years ago it was pretty unusual not to. I was only 22 and straight out of college. I hadn't made a name for myself in any profession so it wasn't as if I needed to keep my maiden name for professional reasons.

In fact, as far as I can recall, only actresses or other women in the public eye kept their maiden name then.

I don't think that anyone has to explain-it is personal choice. I don't really care what they do as long as they don't tell me I am DH's property because I have his name!(as opposed to your father's property!!) I think the whole property idea is utter rubbish.

But pisces, what I feel is that family history is only really traceable in that case down the male line. As if we count for nothing in terms of genetic legacy? And names die out just because people had daughters and no sons. I don't think that's right.

It doesn't really bother me-it is detective work anyway-it is just easier to know that everyone (on the whole) follows the same pattern.(Easier doesn't mean better or worse)

But I don't want to follow the same pattern!

You don't have to! Just don't expect everyone to feel the same.
I don't see the need to even discuss other people's choices-the important thing is to have a choice.

On the subject of discussing and having a choice...

I had a conversation on this subject with a group of blokes from work (all well educated, intelligent 30 somethings).

It transpired that two of the single guys had assumed that a wife taking a husband's surname and the title Mrs happened automatically on marriage and that a woman had to go through some legal procedure if she wanted to keep her own! I nearly choked on my drink.

But on reflection, I guessed that all their mothers, sisters and others they knew had changed their names without any discussion and therefore they had grown up not realising that it was a completely free choice.

So long as it is a free choice though. I have heard a couple of friends and colleagues say that their dh insisted they change their name on marriage! I would be very apprehensive about marrying someone that controlling, tbh.

Mooos I was wondering why you think is it 'pretentious' if you are a 'Dr' to call yourself 'Dr'? For me it signified my hard work and effort, and also it is routinely how I'm referred to at work. I also like that it is a title just about me and not about my father, husband or lack thereof.

My dp however (like you say yours is) is less bothered about the title- however it is only me who routinely writes 'Dr myname' and return things are then written as 'Mrs hisname'.... strangely never once in the time we've been together as he been turned into a Mr. or given my name- which is one of the reasons I'm increasingly arsey about it- I don't care whether people know I'm 'Dr' or not but I really care that a woman (me) regularly has her title changed but a man (dp) has never had his...

Although I like the fact that I am Mrs, I simply wouldn't have married anyone who insisted the alarm bells would ring and I would run!

EffieB Sun 19-Sep-10 20:56:16

"Mooos I was wondering why you think is it 'pretentious' if you are a 'Dr' to call yourself 'Dr'? For me it signified my hard work and effort, and also it is routinely how I'm referred to at work. I also like that it is a title just about me and not about my father, husband or lack thereof.

My dp however (like you say yours is) is less bothered about the title- however it is only me who routinely writes 'Dr myname' and return things are then written as 'Mrs hisname'.... strangely never once in the time we've been together as he been turned into a Mr. or given my name- which is one of the reasons I'm increasingly arsey about it- I don't care whether people know I'm 'Dr' or not but I really care that a woman (me) regularly has her title changed but a man (dp) has never had his..."

EffieB - I have no problem with folks using the title doctor WHEN THEY ARE WORKING as a doctor however do have problems with the pretentiousness of them using it outside of work.

Ovamahead says she won't have to worry about being Ms or Mrs soon as she will be a Dr. That is pretentious as she is obviously going to call herself Dr Ovamahead all the time FFS.

But Doctor is an acceptable title just as Reverend is. (or Sir/Lord/Earl etc). I don't think there is anything remotely pretentious about using the title doctor.

Quite often when filling in forms online you get these options as well as Mr/Ms/Mrs.

I have a doctor friend whose husband is also a doctor, so any correspondance to them is usually Dr & Dr . Although I ususally address Christmas cards to The Family.

Moos but I don't get why it is pretentious to call yourself Dr if you are Dr? It also may be that Ovamahead is talking about gaining a PhD, in which case she will be a Dr 'all the time', and entitled to call herself such, as would a medical doctor. I think Bunbaker has a good point, we're not talking about all those pretentious Reverends who still put 'reverend' down when they're applying for a electricity account, and not just when they're in Church.

My other point was that I've become increasingly bothered about the title, as I've noticed that over the years my title is often changed by others but DP's never is- and I think there's an implicit sexism in this.

Am confused - reverend is your job, just like doctor? So no difference in using title, surely.

General public might have more interest in knowing if you're a medical doctor or a minister (eg in a plane crash!) than if you have a phd in some very boring important subject like my DP!

i think if you have a title like rev, rabbi, Lord, dr or group captain you are perfectly entitled to use it. its not pretentious at all

i quite like Wing Commander, but sadly i am not entitled to use it

i have always been Ms [my surname], and didnt change it when i got married

i am accustomed to the fact that schools call you Mrs [Your childs surname] unless you inform them otherwise. the children have both our surnames

at nrusery the staff call you mum . in that case i have insitsted on Kristina

I don't think it is pretentious to use a title you have a legitimate right to use (don't have one by the way).

I have enjoyed reading the views of everyone on this thread.

I still am happy to be Mrs and changed my name under my own free will. I belong to no-one and am happy with my choice which is what it all boils down to at the end of the day.

I am now off on my second honeymoon after 25 years wedded bliss . The sunshine awaits. Enjoy your debate.