Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Discussion on Women's Hour about harrassment on the streets

373 replies

LadyBiscuit · 16/09/2010 10:36

Did anyone hear this? I am absolutely furious. They had a woman from the London Anti Street Harassment campaign and a male journalist. He was saying that feminists were effectively trying to silence men and deny them a voice by campaigning against harassment.

Sorry I'm being very inarticulate but I was so cross. Angry

I shall post a link when it's up on Listen Again.

Here's the link to have a listen.

OP posts:
HerBeatitude · 16/09/2010 22:35

ISNT - absolutely about the car toots. I never respond to them and only a couple of times has it turned out to be someone I know who expressed astonishment that I was so oblivious.

dittany · 16/09/2010 22:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

celticfairy101 · 16/09/2010 22:36

Appletrees that has given me the creeps big time. Seriously scary.

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:37

How horrible Appletrees. That's just reminded me of a creepy doctor who told me he needed to examine my breasts as part of a routine medical check up. I didn't feel comfortable with it but didn't know how to say no (I was early 20s) and felt quite upset by it afterwards.

Going off tangent from the OP a bit but this thread's just reminding me of lots of things that I'd totally forgotten about. Amazing how much shit you can put up with from men and then completely blank it out!

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:38

Yes they smirk. I was leaving a pub once and walking through a crowd and someone put their hand right between my legs and stroked. It was revoltng.

Turned around to be confronted by two smirking youths, I wish I'd known what to say, but I didn't, and I didn't know which one it was. And they smirked FFS.

That is the one that stays with me, I was more upset about that then when I was raped Confused

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:39

celtic fairy. That's horrible about being groped when 8 months pregnant. I don't know why I think men will somehow give us a break when we're pregnant or with small children. It never ceases to amaze me that apprently we're still fair game!

thecatspjs · 16/09/2010 22:40

I was at the tube station quite late one evening, and a bloke saying something crap like "cheer up love, give us a smile". Can't remember if I did smile, but it obviously wasn't enough for him, cos he kept going on about smiling for him. It wasn't overtly hostile, but he must have realised that it was making me uncomfortable and he STILL kept on about it. Wasn't old enough at that point to tell him to fuck off, but I would do these days.

The worse thing physically was on the tube when a really strange bloke stared at me all the way through the journey, and then when he got off, reached across and stroked all the way down my thigh to my knee. Not as bad as some admittedly, but it was very unnerving. And my boyfriend was clearly with me at the time. I was so gobsmacked I don't think I even said anything.

What makes me so fucking mad, is the sense of entitlement that these men have - that my discomfortant and fear counts for less than their momentary desire for whatever.

I've not had a man wanking near me though - not that I've noticed, although I seem to be in the minority on that one.

dittany · 16/09/2010 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:41

Now ISN'T's reminded me of a man putting his hand between my legs (and smirking). I was walking out of Boots and he was walking in with his girlfriend. She was a step or two ahead of him and he just reached out and stuck his hand between my legs.
Yet another example of a time when I felt totally humiliated and embarrassed and powerless when really all I should have felt was angry and I should have told his girlfriend what he'd done.

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:42

I actually felt very liberated when I was visibly pg with DD1, I realised that I felt really confident and cheerful and great when I walked around. i twigged after a while that it was because I wasn't permanently braced for harrassment.

I also remembered the other day that we all had medicals at school and the bloke put his hand down my knickers and sort of squeezed. What sort of medical was that? There was a nurse there and it was well known that this would happen as the girls said beforehand "they put their hand down your knickers"

Confused how bizarre is that?

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:42

It was 1st year secondary school Confused what was that all about then/

celticfairy101 · 16/09/2010 22:42

I thought immediately it was about control. There was NO way I was going to say anything to this bloke. I was carrying precious cargo. And was feeling a little vulnerable. I couldn't wait to go on maternity leave after that and so brought it forward.

dittany · 16/09/2010 22:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
LadyBiscuit · 16/09/2010 22:44

I don't think a lot of 'nice men' (for want of a better term) realise that a 'nice legs' comment can be followed by a 'OI I was talking to you' right in your face if you don't acknowledge it.

Actually it rarely happens to me anymore, being as old as the hills, but I did get to the point where I would weakly smile and say 'thank you'. Not because I liked it but because ignoring the comments is sometimes incitement to greater aggression.

That's so fucked up isn't it?

OP posts:
sethstarkaddersmum · 16/09/2010 22:45

aargh, just remembered another smirky one - was trying on jeans in the changing room in Next when I realised there was a man with his head stuck through the curtains watching. He smirked and disappeared.

Why didn't I raise the alarm? Why?!!!! I didn't say anything, just let him go, got dressed as quickly as I could and left.

I should have shouted! We must just have such incredibly strong inhibitions against attracting attention in these situations.

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:46

That's very disturbing ISN'T.

I know what you mean about feeling liberated by being pg. I just felt like no one looked at me sexually anymore and I seemed to get a lot more respect from men. I still feel I'm pretty invisible to men when I'm with DD.

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:46

Women start talking and the floodgates open.

It's bloody appalling.

Also, I thought the other day. I imagined that the reason younger women and girls are targetted is because they are, well, younger. Of course a large part of it is that these men know that women with a bit of life experience are likely to tell them to fuck off/make trouble for them. Whereas your average 14yo or even 20yo is more likely to be flustered/not know what to do/and of course that's what they want.

thecatspjs · 16/09/2010 22:47

It's shit isn't it? And I can't believe we are a group of statistically anomalous women who all happen to be on this thread at the same time - it must be happening to virtually every woman out there. I keep thinking of lots of other instances of cat calling, low grade harassment, although compared to what some of you have experienced, they are not that bad!

dittany · 16/09/2010 22:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Appletrees · 16/09/2010 22:49

Yes we should get dispensation on small weaponry like dick secateurs.

Celtic jeez to be groped while pregnant.

The horrible thing about drs is that you tell yourself over and over, "they've seen it all before, it's nothing to them, they've seen it all before"..and then it turns out they do not give a tiny little piece of shit about what they are doing or what they are doing wrong. They can make you feel like meat.

dittany · 16/09/2010 22:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

puddlejumper · 16/09/2010 22:49

Years ago I was on a packed rush-hour train in Chicago when all of a sudden a woman, who was sitting down, starting shouting very loudly at the man standing pressed up against her seat 'Put it away how dare you do that to me you pervert' over and over.

The guy slunk off at the next stop, and a little ripple of applause went round the carriage for the woman.

I thought it was an incredibly brave thing to do and it made a huge impression. But as everyone is saying on this thread lots of harassment takes place when there is no obvious audience.

If there IS an audience, though, perhaps it's a good thing to be brave and shout, even when the whole audience is obviously engrossed in the usual routine of going about their own business, as it should be. Perhaps we all need reminding that some people can go about their business oblivious to this harassment and others can't.

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:50

I thought the best way of dealing with flashers was to laugh and point :)

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:50

catspjs the argument against this being relevant would be that it's on the fem section and therefore we are all either lying / have had an abnormally bad time / men do it to us as we give off feminist pheromones which anger men / or something.

Appletrees · 16/09/2010 22:51

"Shouting is liberating". I completely agree, even if the only reason is so that afterwards you don't think oh, I'm so weak, it's my fault, I should have said something, he got away with it etc etc.