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Original poster

Discussion on Women's Hour about harrassment on the streets

373 replies

LadyBiscuit · 16/09/2010 10:36

Did anyone hear this? I am absolutely furious. They had a woman from the London Anti Street Harassment campaign and a male journalist. He was saying that feminists were effectively trying to silence men and deny them a voice by campaigning against harassment.

Sorry I'm being very inarticulate but I was so cross. Angry

I shall post a link when it's up on Listen Again.

Here's the link to have a listen.

OP posts:
RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 22:52

"feminist pheremones" Grin

thecatspjs · 16/09/2010 22:52

Yeah, and I would agree that the age thing makes a difference. I have prematurely grey hair that I don't bother to dye anymore, and I have a sneaking suspicion that I am less of an attractive target because of it. That and the fact I am quite tall and physically strong looking as well.

Anyway, off to bed now - can't quite believe I have been brave enough to contribute quite so much to one thread. I normally post once, and then scarper. Night ladies - it's been really enlightening although not necessarily in a good way.

ISNT · 16/09/2010 22:53

Right that's it for me, I'm off to bed.

And I'm taking my feminist pheromones with me Grin

Night all Smile

Appletrees · 16/09/2010 22:54

Puddlejumper, that is a good story, I want to take away from this thread some shaming techniques. I like the use of the word pervert. Even for supposedly "innocuous" type stuff that could be effective. They think what they're doing is ok, they don't think it's bullying. But if we say it's perverted, they wouldn't be able to smirk, because that would be like agreeing that they're a pervert, and it would be a pervy sort of smirk. So it's a good weapon.

Appletrees · 16/09/2010 22:55

but I've just got here

withorwithoutyou · 16/09/2010 22:59

Street harassment used to piss me off as a teenager but now, as the mother of two girls is absolutely terrifies me.

I have had loads of it since mid-teens. Hardly any since turning 30/having children/moving out of the city but have still had wankers beeping their horns at me while pushing a double buggy.

What people are saying about how to deal with it is the worst thing of all. When I was 19 I worked in a cinema in Brighton and used to walk home about 20 mins through the town centre about 11PM on a Friday and Saturday night.

Every single time I walked home I would have something shouted at me, and the aggression when I ignored it was incredible - I must be a lesbian, a frigid lesbian. Not a skint 19 year old girl who can't afford a taxi home from work.

RamblingRosa · 16/09/2010 23:00

Likewise, I'm off to bed with my feminist pheremones. This has been a really interesting discussion though. It's made me realise how much shit I've put up with from random blokes on the street and I've just sort of blocked it all out.
I need to have a think about why I haven't tackled these wankers more. I'm not a timid person. I have been described by many a man as "scary" Grin. So why have I been so unable to deal with sexual harassment better? I'll let you know if I wake up with the answer tomorrow....

sethstarkaddersmum · 16/09/2010 23:01

me too Rosa - am going to bed and pondering on exactly the same question.

night all.

puddlejumper · 16/09/2010 23:04

Talking about sexual harassment with friends and colleagues has made me realize just how often we tell the silent 'pervert' story in our heads and wonder if it's just us, or a one-off, or just a bad day, or whatever.

I am really interested in finding a collective voice about this shit. Because honestly much of what I've experienced and heard about from women friends is actual criminal behaviour, and for some reason we find it hard to call it as such.

greythorne · 16/09/2010 23:08

I was driving and listening to WH. Nearly crashed the car. That Brendan bloke was.....so willfully misrepresenting the reality women endure.

and Jenni Murray wants shooting for letting him off so easily.

dittany · 16/09/2010 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Appletrees · 16/09/2010 23:14

Goodnight. I'm still cross. I want to shout pervert at someone now.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 16/09/2010 23:47

just started listening

"i think the less restriction we have on speech, the better" - well good for you brendan. Wait wil you have a load of giant blokes offering to bugger you every time you step out of the door and see how you like that.

Pogleswood · 17/09/2010 00:19

I have just raised my blood pressure listening to that...my absolute favorite bit was when he said that how awful it would be if verbal "banter" became socially unacceptable and "people" (men...) were made to feel uncomfortable and virtually criminal for harassment.So,a tragedy if men were to feel uncomfortable - what about all the women who had just been saying how uncomfortable they were made to feel on a regular basis??

And how terrible that there is a map showing harassment incidents,how it makes London appear unsafe,totally ignoring the fact that this shows incidents which actually happened.

And even - young women are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves...why should women be having to brace themselves to stand up for themselves everytime they leave the house?
Good grief...idiot.

TheButterflyEffect · 17/09/2010 00:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ISNT · 17/09/2010 08:21

I never felt perfectly capacble of "standing up for myself" when confronted with aggressive men twice my size, shouty strangers, weirdy scary men following me, or groin grabbing smirkers.

He can think what he likes, but most girls and young women are not equipped to deal with this stuff. Society tells us to ignore/keep quiet/smile. If you try to "stand up for yourself" then you end up having a big argument (who needs that on a quiet Friday night in a restaurant?), some physical violence or worse.

What is this bloke on about?

Defending the rights of men to verbally abuse 13yo with obscene language? Does he honestly tihnk that it is right for young teenage girls to be propositioned in the most sexually explicit ways by strange men on the street? It's just "flirting"? Mind boggling?

RamblingRosa · 17/09/2010 08:38

I like what puddlejumper said about having a collective voice. The more I think about all the shitty stuff that's happened to me (and I consider myself to be lucky to have had a pretty easy life and not to have been raped or violently attacked as so many women have) that I've just shut up and put up with, and the more I read about other women's experiences of the same shit, the more I think we need to shout a bit louder about this.

I did ask DP whether he was aware of all of this. He knew about me being grabbed and flashed at because I'd told him before. He also reminded me that someone had groped me on the tube when I was with DD when she was a teeny baby in her pushchair. I'd totally blanked that one out. But I don't think he got the extent of it and how frequent and commonplace it is. He said it makes him feel really sad and angry. And also that he just couldn't understand what would make a man want to get his cock out in public! I'm pleased to say he said he'd intervened several times when he thought women were getting hassled by men in the street.

Appletrees · 17/09/2010 08:38

I quite agree. And standing up for yourself to a group or pair of men is horribly frightening even for me or someone like me, and I am quite tough and uncaring about causing a scene. For a preteen, or a shy woman, or an unhappy woman, or previously assualted woman, how can he justify intimidating the bejeezus out of vulnerable people. Knob ends, the lot of them. Fuckers.

Appletrees · 17/09/2010 08:39

If enough people post madly on WH forum won't they return to the subject? I haven't done that yet btw.

Appletrees · 17/09/2010 08:40

Rosa thumbs up to your dh. Why should anyone have to do this.

RamblingRosa · 17/09/2010 08:40

On the tube this morning there was a group of 4 schoolgirls (about 14yo) and I suddenly felt really protective of them (with this thread in mind). They were fine and they weren't getting any hassle but I almost felt like I was braced for someone to start hassling them.

It makes me really :( to think of all the nasty harrassment I've had from men in the street (and in doctor's surgeries Angry) over the years and to think that my lovely DD has all of that in store for her and there's no way I can protect her from it.

RamblingRosa · 17/09/2010 08:45

Exactly Appletrees. I've always thought that about men who cat call/wolf whistle/shout out "compliments"/obscenities to women in the street. I know how intimidating it can be as someone who's never experienced serious violence or rape. I always think that it's such a stupid thing to do because, even if you think it's fairly innocuous ("give us a smile gorgeous" type thing) you never know someone's personal background...you could be frightening the living daylights out of someone who's been recently raped or attacked.

UmYeahLikeTotally · 17/09/2010 13:23

If only it was just innocent flirting....

  • I was flashed in my second year of secondary school. The bloke actually come right up to the school fence where we were sitting.
  • Homeless man started masturbating at me whist I was on a fag break from work. Right in the middle of Shaftesbury Ave.
  • Unwanted and unreturned "compliments" and harrassment from a friend of a friend in the pub led to me being drugged and raped. I told him a hundred times I wasn't interested. Clearly that wasn't going to stop him from having sex with me.
  • I can't even remember the amount of times I've been called at / had bum pinched / breasts grabbed / harrassed in pubs & clubs.
  • When you react in a negative way, they often turn on you. In a bar, I had a bloke wanting to buy me a drink etc. When I said no, he said:
"I'm doing you a favour by even talking to you, love" (v nastily, right in my face)Hmm I said: "Well seeing as you're so kind, would you mind doing me another favour?" (all sweetness and light) "What?" (confused) "Could you please FUCK OFF???!!!"

Sure made me feel better.

I'm worried about DD as she gets older, all of this started for me from about 14 years old. Sad

KERALA1 · 17/09/2010 13:57

If someone gropes you in a public place apparently a good response is to grab the hand hard stick it in the air and shout in a very posh and outraged voice "whose dirty little hand is this?".

KERALA1 · 17/09/2010 14:07

My friend was a doctor doing a rotation in mens health. When she and a female colleague were flashed at in the park she was able to point out in her sharp doctors voice that the subject's penis was rather small, developing a swelling in the left testicle and needed to see his GP very soon. He slunk off back into the hedge from whence he had come.

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