Would you like to play "It's like Feminisim never happened" with me?

[Marchpane]

I have a gem: I'm sorting out the home insurance renewal but since the last policy I have taken redundancy and I'm going back to do a postgraduate course. Which I told them.

They now have my occupation listed as "housewife" which is pretty yuk, but under employer's business it say "domestic service".

Presumably my husband is my employer and I spend my time in servitude to him?

Any one more?

I have no idea where this 'Ms = divorced' thing comes from, it's really bizarre. The whole point of Ms is that it doesn't imply anyting at all about the woman's marital status, just like Mr for a man.

I find Miss for an adult woman sounds a bit odd these days, to me it's for little girls, like 'Master' for boys (very rare to hear that one though). I'll use whichever title people prefer, because that's just polite, but it would all be so much simpler if we all just used Ms!

Sometimes I mischievously play little woman to cold callers, who only want to speak to the person who pays the bills: "Oh gosh, I don't know anything about which gas supplier we use, I must ask my husband when he's home from work". Call ends swiftly.

And I'm weary of this whole name change debate. Use your father's name or your husband's - what's the difference? Both patriarchal. I eventually started using my married name so I'd have the same name as my kids. So please don't assume I'm an obedient little wifey. Unless you're a cold caller that is...

Swiddle, your own choice may have been between your father's name and your husband's name, but had you kept your father's name and passed it on to your daughters you would have made a small step towards changing the system.

It's not just my father's name, it's my name too. I've had it for nearly 30 years so feel I have some right to claim it as my own!

Surely you could use the same argument to say a man's name doesn't really belong to him, so he might as well change it to his wife's on marriage, after all it's only his dad's name, not really his. Similarly, isn't it not really your father's name either, it's actually his fathers, no actually it's his grandfathers etc etc - by that logic none of us have our own names!

I don't particularly care whether anyone keeps or changes their name, there are all kinds of reasons you might want to choose either way (personally I'll be keeping mine as I see no reason to change it) but your name is your name just as much as any man's.

If you really don't feel happy with your name, because of it coming from your father, you can always just change it, no need to get married for that!

I actually find it v odd that women give their children the father's surname. And then say they want the same surname.

My children, for what it's worth, have different surnames from both their parents, as they have both of ours.

Much as I dislike my father, I'd had the same surname for 37 years before I met Mr Inferior. Should I ever accept his repeated offers of marriage, I'm really not going to go in for a re-brand now, 10 years later...

In response to those saying that all womens surnames are patriarchal in ancestry - The name you have had since birth is 'your name'.

I've given the DCs DH's surname, as I don't really like mine much as a name. I'm attached to it, because it's mine, and I have no intention of changing it, but I don't plan to inflict it on anyone else (and can't sensibly double-barrel with DH's as one of our names is a noun and the other is an adjective, so it just sounds silly). Had my mother given me her original surname, which I love, I would absolutely have passed it on to the DCs either alone or as part of a double-barrel.

Re the Dr and Dr thing. We are both Dr.

I cannot count the number of times I have answered the phone to someone asking for 'Dr Libra'. I respond 'Speaking' and then there is usually a long and panicky silence.

Once some idiot actually said 'Oh no, I meant the Real Dr Libra'.

I put the phone down.

I also remember trying to book a flight online with a holiday airline which insisted that if I was a Dr then I must be a man. I apparently could not be a female Dr.

For children's names, I'm thinking we might do something like 'if it's a boy, he gets my surname, if it's a girl, she takes his'. And the one who doesn't get to pass on their surname, gets to choose the first name (with veto power to the other partner though :))

Agree it's odd that the default option is to always give the man's name, though if it's an unmarried couple I assume it's because they plan to get married and for her to take his name at some point in the future. But would have thought that if anything the default would be the other way round, as the mother is the one who gets pregnant and gives birth (i.e. puts far more effort and personal risk into having the child), and is more likely to do the bulk of the childcare and have custody of the children in the event of a split.

My grandmother told me the other day that If I didn't have dinner ready on the table by the time my husband is about to get home, to fry a couple of slices of onion quickly, so he is welcomed by a savoury aroma and he knows that dinner will be on it's way soon.

I get in the door about 5 mins before her does!

*he does

Obviously!

Hey, that's what i did- first DC was a boy, he got his dad's surname; second a girl, she got my surname. Fair's fair I reckon.
People think it's odd though.
I still think the biggest sexist issue of the day is the disparity in incomes for comparable work.

MI: We briefly contemplated using both surnames (double-barrelled or not) but

(1) some names just sound silly -- nobody wants to be the Wild-Chickens, or the York-Moors, which are real examples amongst friends

and

(2)doesn't that just make things still more complicated for the next generation, when the Rambarathan-Sylvesters have to decide whether to double-double-barrel with the Knobbly-Sparrowhawks?

(I namechanged, on the deeply feminist grounds that his name was nicer than mine. But we do the double-Dr thing, with the added spice that my first name is unisex anyway, so coldcallers get REALLY confused.)

On (2), I would tend to assume that my children will be capable of dealing with that themselves when the time comes. Not that they will get the chance, because of (1) (although our combination would admittedly not be as unfortunate as Wild-Chickens or York-Moors. I do have a friend whose DCs would be Goodenough-Woodie had they double-barrelled, and I always thought that was pretty unfortunate...)

ullainga sorry I didn't reply before - I didn't check the thread back until now. I know - ridiculous! She thought her boyfriend would feel emasculated by her being a Dr and him just being a Mr, and that it would be aggressive and forthright of her to use it anywhere but work. Craaaaazy in my book!

LadyLapsang kids' toys really annoy me. Look in the Argos catalogue - girls get ironing boards, pinnies, and bake sets, and boys get chemistry sets. Girls outperform boys at school science!

arionater I am starting to suspect I know you personally . Plus, you reminded me: having just left an also very junior academic position at an Oxbridge college and gone to a different university, a new colleague of mine (much older male) spent about an hour berating me for wearing make-up and telling me it was 'pre-feminist' of me to use mascara. He is a bit of an old Marxist and he said it cost time and labour for women. He was clean shaven, which I presume costs him 'time and labour', but for some reason that was different. He also said that students who wear make-up invariably have psychological disorders they are trying to mask

Somehow his attempt to be feminist went somewhat awry, methinks...

Yes (2) is a weird argument, seems to come from the mindset that we must have a System for namechanging on marriage, that everyone must adhere to, so if we changed the System from woman-takes-man's-name to double-barreled names for both, then your children with double-barrelled names will be FORCED to have quadruple names.

When of course what most of us are saying is that there doesn't need to be a system of rules about this stuff, couples and families can figure out what works for them.

I am double barrelled and once went out with another d-ber. HOW WE LAUGHED at the constant "your kids will have four names!" comments. Yes, because that is the law.

mind you god knows what surnames I will give my kids. DP's surname is silly, and mine is long and cumbersome, might just start again. Flashheart maybe :o

Love this thread but it is a bit depressing!

Some time ago a male colleague of mine was promoted while a female more qualified staff member was completely overlooked (i'll call her 'M'). I remarked to another (male) member of staff that it seems a bit odd that M had not been considered for promotion despite longer service, more qualifications etc. etc. generally being a million times more suitable. His response was 'yes but she had kids though didn't she?'. Neeless to say I was speechless!

True, you could pick anything you want, but some of the point of a surname is surely to narrow down which Tyson or Emily you are, once you join a wider community, and part of that is knowing WHOSE Tyson or Emily you are, so I'd think some connection to your parents' name[s] is useful.

Mind you, you could have great fun rejigging the name combinations for each child (ponders the possibilities)

We should have anagrams of our parents' surnames. That would make figuring out WHOSE Emily or Tyson we are more interesting, and crossword fans would probably win.

IseeGraceAhead , I just love the "Gary is a man, want to talk to him" response. Brilliant!

and Libra, I'm not sure if one should laugh or cry at the "real Dr". Isn't it ridiculous?

This reminded me of a stupid customer a few years ago. I work as an in-house lawyer in a male-dominated industry and sometimes also get the "So, would you get me a cup of coffee dear..and when is the lawyer getting here?" When I explain that I'm it, this one guy actually insisted that he wants a real lawyer, you know, a man.

I guess next time I will kindly offer that if they don't trust me, I will see if my boss, our General Counsel would have time to deal with them. I'm sure they will be very pleased. Until they see that the General Counsel is a woman as well. Ha!

Upon starting 6th form at boarding school (I was naive, had no idea) we were told by the matron that we were to dress modestly because boys would be rating us out of 10 for attractiveness etc.

Our problem how?

On going to buy our new car, and the salesman pointedly asking ME and not my husband (the only time he spoke directly to me, despite the fact we were buying MY car) as to whether "Madam wants a model with parking sensors fitted".

FUCK RIGHT OFF and then FUCK OFF AGAIN WHEN YOU GET THERE. TWAT.

Had a cheeky chuckle with my DH, or rather tried to. My DH knew better than to make any insinuations about female drivers.

TWAT.

Sadly, it was the car I really wanted, so I had to buy it off the TWAT.