Porn

[msrisotto]

Tentative!

Um, the way I see it is that a lot of porn (I have heard) is appallingly violent and degrading for women. This stuff, ideally wouldn't exist and should be banned (how, I don't know, but ideally).

However, the porn that I have seen or enjoyed is not. I wouldn't enjoy porn that is degrading.

So, why is all porn bad? (in some people's opinions?) If it isn't degrading and is equal in its approach, for the entertainment of others, then I don't see any harm.

Is the argument that you don't get the 'good' porn without the bad?

Don't flame me please, I really want this to be a considered conversation.

'a warm reception' implies that this is your territory. this is as much carmen's thread as yours and she has as much right to her opinion as you do.

same difference.

and how is my opinion nitpicking but your isn't? you've nitpicked your ass off on this thread.

if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it.

the remark about the pornographer ejaculating on women's faces was horrible. of course it was. no-one defended it. sexist creepy assholes exist and there are probably a fair few in the adult entertainment industry. it doesn't take a genius to work that out. however, if a woman decides she wants to be a part of a film that involves being ejaculated on, that is her right. it has always been my belief that this is a central part of alot of porn because it's a more visual conclusion to the scene. a camera can't see inside a vagina, therefore the 'money shot' was born. in real life, it's not a main feature of normal heterosexual sex and i personally haven't met a man who was remotely bothered about jizzing on my face. quite the opposite, to withdraw at the point of ejaculation goes against male instinct.

Blinks you seem keen to defend a woman's right to agree to be jizzed on, I'm not sure anyone else has engaged with this and said categorically that a woman doesn't have the right to do this. However, it's not the most interesting thing about porn IMO. Do you have anything to say about what it says about men's attitudes to women and male sexuality, that the most violent and outlandish porn, so unrelated to normal heterosexual sex, is so popular?

Have you read any of the Robert Jensen stuff?

i answered that HB- i said in my opinion the money shot was created because it's a clear visual to end a scene with. clearer than watching a man react to an internal orgasm. i'm not dismissing your theory entirely though as i agree that any humilation is wrong. i don't agree that ALL women feel humiliated by it though.

interestingly, if you read erotica or stories in adult magazines, you might notice that the money shot isn't a main feature. the conclusion is rarely 'then i came all over her face'.

HB, i try to avoid making sweeping statements about 'men's attitudes to women' and 'male sexuality' because, like women, men differ hugely. generally though i doubt that the average man indulges in wanking to 'violent and outlandish porn'. like women, i take men as i find them and during MY life i have experienced abuse but i have also been treated with respect in all of my adult relationships.

my abuser was my father and i had access to his small pornography collection, so for what it's worth, i can report that it was your common garden porn, big boobs and lusty poses etc. i can also report that the damage done by my father AND mother's emotional abuse was just as far reaching as the sexual abuse.

i'll decide what's a waste of my time, thanks very much.

i didn't realise that i'm only allowed to respond the the CENTRAL part of a post. sorry! tell you what, remove everything but the central part and i'll respond to that.

a theory should surely be based on more than one person's opinion.

outlandish wasn't my category, it was HB's.

"i doubt that the average man indulges in wanking to 'violent and outlandish porn'"

But it has been stated over and over again, that violent and outlandish porn is the biggest selling type.

I think it's fairly obvious that terms like "male sexuality" are not talking about every single individual man on the planet, but it would be unwieldy to continually caveat that and make debate extremely slow and irksome.

So what are your thoughts on the large number of mainstream men, many of them in happy relationships, who watch the rape, degradation and torture of women for entertainment, stimulation and orgasm?

And did you read the Robert Jensen stuff?

but surely if ejaculating on women's faces was high on the list of men's desires, we would be reading about it in erotic literature also. and wouldn't more women be talking about their partners attitudes to it? i've yet to meet a woman who mentioned their partner loving jizzing on their face.

all of this leads me to believe than a certain amount of porn doesn't filter down hugely into RL. the argument is of course valid that it is a visual representation of men's desire to humiliate and dominate women but i can't get past the fact that the male performers would probably personally prefer to have penetrative sex. that reflects MY reality.

HB- tbh not read much of his work but i've seen a few talks on youtube.

blinks I don't really understand your argument. Are you saying that this stuff gets made and then not sold?

This part of the market is driving the market. Are men buying it and then just leaving it on the shelf, never watching it?

You seem to be in very strong denial that men are buying and watching this stuff. (And by men I mean the men who buy it, not all men in the world, obv.) We know they are buying it, because the global sales figures for the porn industry are there. Do you really believe that they don't watch the porn they buy?

interesting though that having posted on MN for several years and despite favouring the relationships section, i can't think of one thread discussing men jizzing on women's faces.

might be an idea to start a thread and get some feedback.

you have to differentiate between a pearl necklace and jizzing on someone's face. surely your whole point is the humiliation is caused by the women's facial reaction.

HB- i honestly don't understand your last post.