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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rape within marriage

1000 replies

tabouleh · 26/08/2010 15:28

Yes unashamedly a thread about a thread.

It is like entering the bloody twilight zone over there. Sad

Jeez there are MNers basically caring more about OP's husbands right to sex rather than believing OP and helping her.

Totally understand if this gets deleted for being a thread about a thread - but if it gets more of the feminist viewpoints onto that thread then great.

OP posts:
edam · 26/08/2010 22:55

oops, obv. cross questioning of the OP, Anchor.

thedollyridesout · 26/08/2010 23:03

I find the whole concept of consent to sex within a 10 year marriage difficult to understand. DH and I don't say yes to sex, we just 'do' it.

Within the OP's marriage, the goal posts have been moved due to her loss of libido. I think that it is possible that her DH was confused. To label him as a rapist does no one any good.

It was not a respectful thing that he did and I am sure the OP will make him understand that but to say that he is twinned with the lowlife that rape women where there are no blurred boundaries makes a mockery of 'real' victims and 'real' crimes.

If the OP feels like a victim then I guess she is one and what you lot are doing is colluding in that. Others have tried to help by giving the OP an easier way back to a 'normal' marriage.

Portofino · 26/08/2010 23:05

thedolly, YES! You put it so well. I have done myself no favours, but I agree.

Raejj · 26/08/2010 23:06

Portfino. Please please please for everyone's sake - not least of all anchor - just go. Stop posting.

edam · 26/08/2010 23:06

oh FGS sake dolly, get it through your thick head, your views are NOT what the law says. Do you think having signed a piece of paper means your husband can stick his penis into your vagina any time he feels like it, whether you want to have sex or not?

If you do, then I'm very sorry for you. But you should not impose your misunderstanding of the law and warped perspective on rape victims. That is unkind and dangerous.

chibi · 26/08/2010 23:06

he was told NO

how is this confusing? how is it a mixed signal?

what does NO mean to you?

LadyBiscuit · 26/08/2010 23:08

I disagree thedolly. If a man penetrates a woman without her consent then it is rape. I agree that there are more traumatic and less traumatic rapes - I've been on the end of both. But to say that it isn't rape totally undermines a woman's right to say no.

What is it that makes you think it isn't rape? How do you define it?

I agree that Porto's posts seem very out of character too. Worryingly so

StewieGriffinsMom · 26/08/2010 23:08

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StewieGriffinsMom · 26/08/2010 23:10

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dittany · 26/08/2010 23:12

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CaptainKirksNipples · 26/08/2010 23:13

Didn't think this thread could get any worse Shock. Sorry you have to read this, again, Anchor.

For fuck sake some of you are insensitive bastards! And I don't normally swear...

dittany · 26/08/2010 23:14

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LadyBiscuit · 26/08/2010 23:14

And also thedolly - you said that you don't ask for consent within your relationship, you just do it - I think that's probably pretty normal. But if you said, 'no, I'm sorry, I'm really not in the mood' would your husband just carry on regardless? And if he did, would you think 'oh fair enough, he's really horny' or would you think 'get the fuck off me! I said no'?

Seriously, I would like to know.

Raejj · 26/08/2010 23:15

Anchor, I too am saddened by some of these comments. I hope you are ok.

StewieGriffinsMom · 26/08/2010 23:16

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edam · 26/08/2010 23:17

dittany - there are also people who are just as thick as pig shit and have no compassion. I wouldn't assume everyone who has behaved disgracefully on this thread is a victim. Some people are just nasty and can't wait to show off about how nasty they are.

dittany · 26/08/2010 23:19

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CaptainKirksNipples · 26/08/2010 23:20

And normally would name change if they have an opinion like that and are regulars...

thedollyridesout · 26/08/2010 23:21

I've never had sex with my husband that I didn't thoroughly enjoy and on the occasions that I have said no he has had enough respect for me and himself to control his urges.

It is about respect, or in the OP's case, lack of it.

chibi · 26/08/2010 23:23

what if he didn't control his urges, thedolly, and just penetrated you anyway?

do you really think that's ok and just part of what a marriage is?

loopyloops · 26/08/2010 23:24

StewieGriffinsMom your DH sounds lovely :)

wukter · 26/08/2010 23:25

That's the whole bloody point, thedolly, Anchor's husband didn't. There is a word for that: Rape.

thedollyridesout · 26/08/2010 23:25

I don't know what the opposite of rose-coloured spectacles are, but you guys have got them permanently welded to your scones.

arses · 26/08/2010 23:27

I think that we need to make a distinction here between not needing to say 'yes' to sex in a 10 year marriage and - as happened in this case - saying no to sex in a 10 year marriage.

They are poles apart.

I am with my dh and partner for 12 years. There is no verbal negotiation of consent in our sexual relationship: we understand eachother nonverbally if it's a yes, a kiss leads to more, to cuddles and desire etc. If one of us makes an advance the other doesn't wish to reciprocate, then it is verbal: from a straightforward 'no' to the jokey 'get your mitts off me, I'm tired' kind of response that Anchor gave.

I can understand why people are confused about the issue of explicit consent in a marriage e.g. in some posts it does seem as though this is a formal part of 'proceedings' e.g. "do you, my lovely wife, consent to have me putting my penis inside you tonight?" - and of course, this seems unnatural and strange.

I also understand that many women sometimes have sex because they feel they should. The ebb and flow of sexual desire over a lifetime means sometimes one partner is not really 'up for it' but knows, somewhere inside, they will enjoy it when it happens and besides, they enjoy the feeling of satisfying their partner even if they themselves are not particularly interested. This is not always a sexual thing, per se. I seem to spend my life asking my husband for neck and shoulder massages and I know that he finds it tiring but he does it because it makes me happy. And sometimes he says no and I say 'ah go on! Pleeeeeeeeeeeease!' and he does it half-heartedly etc etc. There is an element of give and take about personal desires (sexual and non-sexual) in any relationship.

However, what happened in Anchor's case is that the natural give-and-take of a long-term relationship, all those little compromises of personal desire we make for one another etc, was violated. Because, on this occasion, the 'ah go on! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease' was met with a no and a firm one in that - verbally and nonverbally as she went back to sleep - and her husband, instead of continuing the interaction on an equal level, chose to override the rejection. He essentially said, to hell with you saying no, this is what I want and I'm having it whether you want it or not. Perhaps he told himself he wasn't, but he chose to have sex with his wife when she had said no and she was, essentially, asleep.

I can't see how anyone can spin that as being okay and not a serious violation of trust and love in Anchor's relationship. No, it is possibly not the same as him beating her down and giving her a black eye while doing it in the sense it was not, maybe, intended as an act of violence, but it is absolutely and utterly NOT OKAY and it was an abuse of power and demonstrative of a pervasive attitude in society (as demonstrated on this thread) that marriage = an available vagina, regardless of the woman's feelings about that. It was sex against Anchor's consent. And that, I'm afraid, is rape.

dittany · 26/08/2010 23:28

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