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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inspiration needed: is it possible to live happily as a mother of children without money or relatives for childcare?

138 replies

MintyBadger · 23/08/2010 14:04

I'm struggling. I had a career, I stopped it around the time I had children. Naively, before dd was born, I assumed that I'd go back to work, nursery would be great, and all would be normal.

I did go back, but I didn't factor in a) that my brain was focused almost solely on my baby, that I may never get back the focus I was capable of before pregnancy; b) that dh's annoying inability to see dust would not get better, leaving me to assume the role of either sole housekeeper or shrew, despite many, many attempts to get him to take some fucking responsibility for his own environment; c) that my salary would pay for childcare (just) but there would be a net gain to the family of zero.

Of course some of these things I should have thought of. I couldn't predict a). b) is less my responsibility and more of a character flaw in DH that I now have to live with. c) I should have known but nobody spelled it out to me, frankly. I wish it was more talked about.

I was offered redundancy when the children were little and I took it. The change was refreshing. The dcs were small enough that I didn't feel I had to be a housekeeper, they were a mass of activity. Now they're at school and I just think: through no choice of my own, I have ended up responsible for ALL the childcare, cooking and cleaning - with the odd bit of 'help' from DH - while his career has grown and grown. A 'proper job' would require big changes in our family.

It was never meant to happen this way. I never wanted to do this, I never tried to do it, and I am ashamed that I have ended up being an unhappy stereotype. If the answer were as simple as 'get a job' then I wouldn't be asking here. I do some work from home already, and love the satisfaction and the money. But I am still not 'me.'

Is it the case that you don't get the 'privilege' (is it still a privilege?) of fulfilment and satisfaction without the childcare input from your family, or the hard cash that'll pay for a nanny? How have others got round this?

OP posts:
skintbint · 28/08/2010 15:22

hmm. uneprune we are in a similar situation, in that dh is military, so prone to disappearing on courses, tours, working weekends, and for 6 months of the year 14 hour work days. Angry

there is no discussion. there is no real choice, either, so it's difficult to blame anyone in particular for the way we are currently living.

to complicate the joint work ethic further, when you move every two years (ish, sometimes more often), the possibilities for spousal employment are... variable. as are the childcare options.

i'm totally wrestling with this at the moment (have been for years). the americans have done a lot of research into military spousal employment/ education/ life chances etc, the uk are just starting to look into it.

there was a really interesting study done about 40 years ago looking at feminism and military wives, but no-one has gone there for decades. i might resurrect it.

skintbint · 28/08/2010 15:26

oh, and the divorce rate is higher for military couples too - i can't decide if this is due to women getting fed up and going off to live a life of their own choosing, or a mutual breakdown where the woman is left with nothing to fall back on, having spent not only her childrearing years, but a large portion of her adult life as a portable cleaner...

swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 15:29

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skintbint · 28/08/2010 15:39

i don't think it is any different to any other divorce settlement where a woman hadn't been working tbh.

i know a lot of instances where marriages have broken down, but the woman and children just disappear. the men just move into the provided room and carry on (paying less rent but still getting their meals cooked for them lol). i mean it's not state-sponsored divorce, but it's quite an odd situation.

swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 15:47

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skintbint · 28/08/2010 15:58

there are welfare agencies that will help, but it's starting to set my teeth on edge a bit.

my assumption is that ordinarily a settlement will be reached and the family will get support from the serving member, but it's certainly a different scenario from 'he's moved out'.

women and children are given 90 days before they have to leave their house. i think most go 'home' to their own parents whilst they apply for council support etc. again, only my assumption, they just... vanish.

skintbint · 28/08/2010 16:04

and find new schools, and...

i dunno. i mean we have to create a new life every two years in any case - new house, new schools, new jobs (if you can get them) etc.

i suspect it might be a relief in some cases to take the family and set up a permanent arrangement somewhere.

swallowedAfly · 28/08/2010 17:41

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sunny2010 · 28/08/2010 18:10

That is why I would never be a military wife. I was in the military myself and women in the military are treated with so much more respect than the wives (as a whole). Also as you say I know so many men that just went off with someone else and the woman got booted out on to the council house waiting list whilst he got all his food cooked and a free place to live and a good wage.

I have known higher military people to lie to wives about affairs and everything. It is very sexist unless you are actually serving yourself then the men treat you differently .I think the wives are treated like a sub species a lot of the time by the military. People used to talk to me and say what do you do and I would say I was serving and my job and talk to you whereas people would say oh shes just blahblahs wife and everyone would hardly say a word to them.

IsItMeOr · 28/08/2010 18:20

swallowed - Hmm, I think that a career compensation payment is rather different than a tokenistic salary.

In practice, a major problem with funding your approach is that the pay packets that most individuals bring home would not be enough to cover all the costs you're identifying.

skintbint · 28/08/2010 19:57

sunny. i'm ex-military. and now a wife. i can't even attempt to begin to explain the difference in status Grin

although would also have a lot to say about the atatus of women in the military.

custody, saf? never seen it working. occasionally men are allowed married quarters if they have a joint custody agreement (this is largely theoretical, as i've only known one take up the offer in rl). there are welfare houses that you can book for custody visits. again, mostly theoretical. can't say i've seen many used.

i do agree with isitme, in reality, most income coming in is pretty much matched by expenditure when there is only a single earner. i would suggest that a sole savings programme would be the norm in a family with a larger disposable income (y'know, a sort of pocket/ spending money for clothes/ whatever) but for the vast majority of familes the sole income doesn't stretch to saving at all.

sunny2010 · 28/08/2010 23:13

skintbint - I do realise its hard to change the way the military thinks as it is a very male culture. I know not all men subscribe to sexism in there as thats where I met my husband and you met yours Grin however there are many men that see their wives as just slaves. I doubt it will ever change overall but as long as you know your husband doesnt think like that then dont worry what the rest of them think.

ssd · 28/08/2010 23:22

op, I feel very similiar to you

with no childcare to help us my career has dwindled and dwindled to a p/t minimum wage job.

I look at other mums working in the same jobs they had when their kids were babies and I see woman who have their mums/MIL's coming over and giving free regular childcare. Sometimes I feel like shouting at them "I used to have a good job but I had to give it up as it wasn't feasable without my mum around the corner like you have", but of course I don't, I just drag my self esteem about and feel like shit.

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