Inspiration needed: is it possible to live happily as a mother of children without money or relatives for childcare?

[MintyBadger]

I'm struggling. I had a career, I stopped it around the time I had children. Naively, before dd was born, I assumed that I'd go back to work, nursery would be great, and all would be normal.

I did go back, but I didn't factor in a) that my brain was focused almost solely on my baby, that I may never get back the focus I was capable of before pregnancy; b) that dh's annoying inability to see dust would not get better, leaving me to assume the role of either sole housekeeper or shrew, despite many, many attempts to get him to take some fucking responsibility for his own environment; c) that my salary would pay for childcare (just) but there would be a net gain to the family of zero.

Of course some of these things I should have thought of. I couldn't predict a). b) is less my responsibility and more of a character flaw in DH that I now have to live with. c) I should have known but nobody spelled it out to me, frankly. I wish it was more talked about.

I was offered redundancy when the children were little and I took it. The change was refreshing. The dcs were small enough that I didn't feel I had to be a housekeeper, they were a mass of activity. Now they're at school and I just think: through no choice of my own, I have ended up responsible for ALL the childcare, cooking and cleaning - with the odd bit of 'help' from DH - while his career has grown and grown. A 'proper job' would require big changes in our family.

It was never meant to happen this way. I never wanted to do this, I never tried to do it, and I am ashamed that I have ended up being an unhappy stereotype. If the answer were as simple as 'get a job' then I wouldn't be asking here. I do some work from home already, and love the satisfaction and the money. But I am still not 'me.'

Is it the case that you don't get the 'privilege' (is it still a privilege?) of fulfilment and satisfaction without the childcare input from your family, or the hard cash that'll pay for a nanny? How have others got round this?

. so that I read all this later. I totally understand OP :).

What an interesting thread. My heart goes out to all of you who feel you have lost your way.

I think a lot of problems here are societal ones. As a society we simply don't discuss these sorts of issues honestly. We valourise the role of the SAHM and the part-time working mother without really thinking about the consequences for real women.

We also don't talk openly about childcare issues. A lot of people seem to think the only childcare options are either a nursery, which many dislike for very small children, or grandparents. So those who don't like the idea of nursery for babies and toddlers, and don't have relatives to help out feel squeezed into staying at home. A lot of people, on MN and in real life, don't even seem to know about or consider using a childminder, which can be a brilliant compromise, esp. for younger children.

Completely agree with nearlytoolate that the answer is men learning to pull their weight right from the start. Accepting that this will have an impact on their careers, and that paying for childcare is their responsibility too.

In my workplace (academia), most of my colleagues are either single, or have a stay at home partner. The working patterns are completely set up for this, i.e. we are expected to work 60 hour weeks. As a single parent, I simply can't participate in this, but it is hard being one of the only ones to opt out.

However, I am very very lucky in that DD's dad works 4 days a week. So DD spends 2 days with him, 2 days with me, and 3 (shortish) days at a lovely childminders, where she is practically part of the family.

We desperately need men to become more involved, which includes cutting their hours, to enable women to keep the non-domestic side of things going.

MintyBadger: btw, if your DH is not prepared to do his share of the housework willingly and without nagging, then it is only fair that he pays for a cleaner. Out of 'his' spending money (if you have that sort of arrangement) rather than out of the household budget.

I got around DH's ability to see dust by getting a cleaner. We can't really afford it, but it's made me so much happier that every penny is worth it.

My salary goes entirely on childcare and cleaner, but I love my job and hate being at home, so it's a decision that works for me.

I think it is possible to live happily ever after, as long as you are prepared to make some sacrifices. We sacrificed holidays, new car, bigger home etc, but it's worth it to me as I'm now more than content on a day-to-day basis.

I think it helps to sit down with a list of your priorities, a spreadsheet of your finances, and a bit of creative thinking as to how you can best meet everyone's needs.

I think that actually, seeing as one of you has sacrificed their career progression by looking after children 24/7 for a decent chunk of their life, the subsequent childcare costs and housework if he refuses to get with it, should be split proportionally.

Very interesting thread. Helping me to crystalize some thinking.

Had a chat with DH about the politics of housework last night and have agreed that we will make a schedule for housework, how frequently we think it needs to be done and who by. He probably does more than his fair share of the daily things like dishes, but says it doesn't even occur to him to clean the bathroom.

I can remember my mum getting me to help her to clean bathrooms when I was growing up. Although obviously not my brother.

DH's mum encouraged him in many areas (e.g. ironing), but not bathrooms.

Sorry, a bit of a tangent. I'm also interested in the working aspect. I'm currently SAHM with 18mo DS, and the plan is for us both to work part-time from January next year and split childcare between us, so that one of us is always looking after DS.

I do find myself thinking that it would be "easier" for me to just carry on staying at home, but in light of this thread, perhaps I need to be more resolved to go back in Jan?

Looking at this thread I am also struck by how many folk feel so lost without being able to follow a career, and have drifted into full-time housewifery.

I've got almost the opposite problem - I drifted into being the main breadwinner, with DS f/t at nursery since he was 5mo. DH is stuck because of the recession, or has been until these past couple of months.

Problem for me is that it still falls to me to do all the cleaning, tell himself what needs doing (he can never see it for himself!) and since he got a temp job, I now come home, cook tea for DS and then DH comes home, baths him and then I'm back on duty for book-reading.

By the time DS is finally asleep it's usually 8.30pm and I can then cook (again!) and finally pass out at 10pm for getting up at 6 and doing it all over again.

When then hell did I agree to do everybl**dything? Nursery costs me nearly a grand a month and since he's been working again, I've had one small contribution to this.

The one thing I do have is my career, and tbh, right now I'd really like to have a break cos I'm running out of steam. I'm another academic (research scientist) and daren't really lose track of current stuff or else I'm out. Really p's me off that male academics of my age (like another colleague) can do external stuff, get involved in running professional body committees, climbing the ladder, because I can't and because they have wives at home who are probably frothing because their careers have vanished too!

You can't win, can you? But we do, as we have our DCs. Have to cling to that, and be grateful for them. So I tell myself!

I'm not surprised you're feeling burnt out moon, your schedule sounds absolutely knackering.

I think your DH needs a kick up the arse.

Moonbells - yes, I know exactly what you mean, both wrt to academia and to doing a FT job and running the house too. This was a huge contributor to the breakdown of my relationship. I couldn't understand how I had ended up in a situation where I was the main breadwinner, cleaner, parent-in-chief, lawn mower, grandparent wrangler - and the rest.

moon - read the politics of housework link that dittany posted yesterday. I also found this helpful.

Oh, and your DH clearly needs this.

You are on the path to separation and divorce I suspect if you and your DH don't communicate about sharing responsibility more equally .

swallowedafly - money?? But sometimes not even that if you are the main breadwinner!
I'm with you though - I have never viewed the childcare expenses as solely my responsibility. Its just another of our bills that needs to be paid out of our household income...

swallowedAfly - perhaps I phrased that badly. I meant that a value equivalent to my salary goes on childcare and the cleaner. We do pool all our resources, both salaries into one joint account and everything paid out together. But the point being that as a family, we don't make any financial gain from me working. Whether I work or SAH, we would have about the same at the end of the month. However, if DH stopped working, we'd be screwed! He earns enough that he doesn't get to choose whether he'd prefer to work or not and it not have any major effect on family finances.

It's not that it's specifically my salary going on childcare.

I was only trying to make the point that it's often the case that one salary (doesn't matter whose) goes on childcare, but that you shouldn't let it stop you if you want to work.

I think its also important to look to the long term - my dc are only 8 and 6 but already we have childcare costs a fraction of what we used to pay. So this 'its not worth my while financially to work' is really shortsighted - a few years working for not very much net gain pays enormous dividends later. It also gives the household security in case one job is lost, and the woman far more security if the marriage goes pear shaped.
Of course, I think a lot of mothers make the immediate decision to stay home with babies/toddlers because they passionately want to, and we need to get better at making it easier to go back after this sort of gap. But part of the problem is that men get too comfortable/habituated during these years and become part of the problem.

Ouch - I'm one of those wives at home while dh succeeds in academia. I do seethe quite a bit! The past year has been awful (he got promoted), lots of travel, lots of extra admin. DH is more stressed than I've ever seen him. He's really not himself.

We just had a conversation where he was talking about his travel arrangements for another week at a workshop abroad...I thought, you haven't even acknowledged that I'll be here, plodding away, sorting out the childcare for when I'm at work, sorting all the food, all the play, remembering dinner money and PE kit. I'm lonelier than I used to be. Meanwhile he'll be spending the week with people I know really well and miss like mad, our old friends whom I never see any more now we've all moved on.

Lordy, Uneprune (great name!), I feel for you.

I think we would all be a lot happier (DHs included!) if workplaces stopped assuming that all their employees are single, footloose, fancy free, and have bugger all to do but to dance to their tune.

The amount of travel one is expected to do to be a successful academic is ridiculous, and completely incompatible with family life - not to mention the environment. I turn down loads of trips, and I'm not even that well known.

I can't help feeling a bit of a pang when I hear of colleagues all getting together in some fab location and talking shop, but I know there is only a limited number of times I can go away without taking the piss with regard to DD and the people who have to step in when I am away (XP, XMIL, DM). So it is a good discipline in that regard.

Yes, he turns down loads too. He used to say 'why don't you two come with me and we'll make a trip of it?' I did that twice and realised that it was a very expensive way of doing childcare single-handed in a foreign country, and I didn't see our friends anyway because there were always conference dinners and drinks in the evening but ds needed to be in bed. (OK I did see the aquarium in Valencia, it wasn't all bad [rolly eyes])

Now the technology is good enough, he does do a lot more video-conferencing, so doesn't go abroad so much any more to work on collaborations. I know he misses it, though (who wouldn't?!).

I do think it could be a lot worse, of course, and it is a secure job for life with a good income (now) - I am missing dh a bit at the moment though.

swallowed - is that feminist/equality, though?

I think the equal thing to do is that everybody contributes a fair share to meeting the families needs as best they can. So if one person goes out to work for say, 37 hours per week plus 5 hours of travelling. The other provides childcare at home.

My expectation would be that the remaining childcare and housework that doesn't lend itself to being done in parallel with childcare is splite equally between the partners.

The money effectively goes into a single pot to meet the household needs, and any spare is split equally between the partners to treat themselves.

Getting into the territory of one partner paying the other a salary is wrong imo.

I don't understand your point, as in my model the benefit of the two people's labour in a financial sense is the money that is equally shared ? So they have an equal amount of the available financial security and freedom. My assumption is that they plan finances together.