Inspiration needed: is it possible to live happily as a mother of children without money or relatives for childcare?

[MintyBadger]

I'm struggling. I had a career, I stopped it around the time I had children. Naively, before dd was born, I assumed that I'd go back to work, nursery would be great, and all would be normal.

I did go back, but I didn't factor in a) that my brain was focused almost solely on my baby, that I may never get back the focus I was capable of before pregnancy; b) that dh's annoying inability to see dust would not get better, leaving me to assume the role of either sole housekeeper or shrew, despite many, many attempts to get him to take some fucking responsibility for his own environment; c) that my salary would pay for childcare (just) but there would be a net gain to the family of zero.

Of course some of these things I should have thought of. I couldn't predict a). b) is less my responsibility and more of a character flaw in DH that I now have to live with. c) I should have known but nobody spelled it out to me, frankly. I wish it was more talked about.

I was offered redundancy when the children were little and I took it. The change was refreshing. The dcs were small enough that I didn't feel I had to be a housekeeper, they were a mass of activity. Now they're at school and I just think: through no choice of my own, I have ended up responsible for ALL the childcare, cooking and cleaning - with the odd bit of 'help' from DH - while his career has grown and grown. A 'proper job' would require big changes in our family.

It was never meant to happen this way. I never wanted to do this, I never tried to do it, and I am ashamed that I have ended up being an unhappy stereotype. If the answer were as simple as 'get a job' then I wouldn't be asking here. I do some work from home already, and love the satisfaction and the money. But I am still not 'me.'

Is it the case that you don't get the 'privilege' (is it still a privilege?) of fulfilment and satisfaction without the childcare input from your family, or the hard cash that'll pay for a nanny? How have others got round this?

RussAbbott - I think it's the choice thing I'm surprised about. That women seem to wake up and think 'hang on, how did I get into the role of family skivvy all of a sudden?' It must be a very stealthy process.

Minty - what's your dream scenario? If you took out all logistical barriers, what would you like your life to look like?

Hi OP I know several women ( and there must be many across the country) who feel like this,who do not have Nanny or Granny and find it hard if not impossible to get back on track with a career. You definitely should not feel ashamed,you are doing the best you can in your circumstances.

To answer your question,I suspect there is no privilege without making sacrifices of some kind - to your relationship, your kids, or your interim financial position. THe people I know who have got somewhere, have all relied on childcare of some sort, even if it is only another mum to do the school pick up. And plenty manage cheap childminders, or gratuities to neighbours for a few hours childcare, even if they are not happy with the care provided, simply in order to have a job. Others wait until the kids can be high school latchkey kids.

Of course, there are equally a lot of men who have the career, but hate it and suffer it only because it adequately supports their family.

I therefore do see fulfilment of personal ambition/career as a luxury/privilege when you have a family, because it is dependent on having choices which usually cost money. Which isn't to say it can't be done.

Also, when I had to work a 12 hour shift job, my DP discovered hitherto hidden abilities to look after kids and cook and clean. Not always the way I would have liked, but I could catch up at the weekend. Also, I know friends who swear getting a cleaner saved their marriage, they are not always expensive.

So it is really a question of what do you do with your time until one of the above solutions presents itself, something that gets you out and about in the adult world and builds your self esteem and not housework!

Sorry I have not read the whole thread

My dream scenario would be to have an office where I could pursue the business ideas I have. And a nanny at home, or a bloody good and not ropey and oversubscribed after school club.

I've been trying to find solutions, and looking at how others do a similar thing. I can't get away from the stark fact that they have space (it's at such a premium here) in which to work, and family childcare. My parents are simply too settled to move nearer to us, and we're dependent on DH's job at the moment and it's not an option to move.

So, I'm not daft, I can see that my choice of work would be a luxury, and this is why I started the thread in a way: I don't see that I can demand that things be changed just to indulge me. Yet if I was getting a job in a company, it would seem easier. Maybe I know deep down that it's an indulgence :sad:

The reality is - I'm going to take a long hard look at my skills from my previous job, I'm going to perhaps see a careers counsellor, and I'm going to find a way to do some further study to retrain in something. Whoever said 'five-year-plan' down the thread, I hope it's quicker than that, but it sounds about right.

TBH, sounds like you have a lot of positive options, you have business ideas, your careers counsellor will make you see you r skills are still valuable and how you can use them, and you can afford to study, even if the kids have to go to ropey after school care meantime.

My DH has started 2 businesses from scratch, from home (with no space), one failed, and I have had numerous crappy jobs. If I had not had more kids one of them would have turned into something better though. Keeping taking those small steps will keep you happier meantime.

Can you give yourself a bit more mental space? My friend's partner works from home in a shed in the garden :)

I think to get your five year plan you have to take small steps to see progress. What I found really helpful in having a life change (different situation but the basic premise of wanting to change things was the same) was sitting down with a friend and putting together a timetable and then checking back to see how I was going, making adjustments as I went etc. Really made me feel like I had a structured plan that was achievable.

career guidance sounds positive. about 5 years ago i went and had a session with one of those 'back to work after children' types who lurk around the jobcentre (first time i'd been in a jobcentre since working in one twenty years ago ).

anyway, i wasn't expecting much if i'm honest - i'd kind of assumed it was going to be 'oo, what childcare, can you type' type thing, but actually, she was immensely helpful in providing a space for me to think about what i actually did want, more importantly, what i didn't want, and actually just giving me time and permission to focus on me and how i could move forwards. we didn't even discuss jobs. but just giving permission to bounce ideas off a stranger was fantastic. in fact, within 60 minutes i'd come to a number of conclusions myself, which i found staggering, as they had been staring me in the face, but i hadn't actually realised...

that said - it gave me a direction to steer in, but from a personal pov it was too soon to see concrete results (too many pre-schoolers .

i'm loving sunny's simplified ideas about how-to though. having been trying to finish courses for the last hundred years, it ain't that simple! but it will happen eventually.

i was thinking about a thread a la duritzfan yesterday...

well skintbint if you start one, let me know.....

hmm..think i need to get a five year plan together .... small steps I guess...

I love the fact that I can come on MN and say this stuff out loud and hear that other people understand.. My MIL and SIL had no career and think i am lucky to be able to stay home ..they dont understand that I might want more from my life..

Its not an ego thing .. I know that my kids benefit from my being at home with them, I was a latchkey kid to a single mum myself so I know the disadvantages of that too.. My children benefit from having a mum at home who can answer their questions, teach them things - so I don't feel that I have "wasted" my intelligence..

But the demands of children and the demands of a career are different ... and its the career demands I crave these days ...
Also to know that Id be able to support myself and the children should DH walk out or die..

I do feel as though I have given up my power a bit ....

Hi, like you I took redundancy when DS1 was 9 months and I was pregnant with DS2. They're still not at school yet so I don't know how I will feel then, but I just wanted to say that I can't see either how I am supposed to go back to work (well, a proper career) even when they are at school.

However, I the way I have reconciled it to myself is this: I don't think you can be defined by a job - be that a profession or the fact that you are a mother. You are a mixture of all of those things.

If I can't find a career that I can fit in around the time the kids are at school, then perhaps do voluntary work. I think helping other people can bring you lots of fulfillment. Or take up a new hobby/study something different.

'i'm loving sunny's simplified ideas about how-to though. grin having been trying to finish courses for the last hundred years, it ain't that simple! but it will happen eventually.'

Lol it will happen if you focus I had to work at my course and was actually in uni on my due date and was writing an essay 3 days after she was born. It certainly wasnt simple. The first four months were horrendous with a newborn and having to write essays with no sleep I just lived on energy drinks! I think I was high off them for the first six months but it paid off in the end. It probably would of made sense to take a gap year but I needed student loan as I couldnt afford to pay the mortgage.

oh, yes. i finished my undergrad dissertation whilst bf at 3am (and came out with a first), but with 3 dc's including one with cerebral palsy (and 3 different schools/ pre-schools/ nurseries/ childminders to drop them off/ pick up at) i'd love the luxury of being able to focus on finishing even one of my masters!

but we all have different family circs, and it's a bit simplistic to say 'suck it up'.

i'm coming around to the idea of trying to change my focus lol, but life keeps getting in the way.

(should add - the courses thing has been complicated by the fact we move every two years - sometimes countries, which is what stymied me last time...)

I can absolutely see myself in these stories.

And then, it still seems that one must choose between raising her children or having a career. Simply not fair :(

My pull to be with my baby hit me like a ton of bricks, It was totall unexpected.
Well, it was expected in the sense that I had already decided mothering was an important but undervalued job (no economic value, of course) but the strength of my feelings were unexpected.
I had a job lined up for when the baby was 4 months old at the same salary as my DH and I turned it down because I couldn't bear to leave her (sorry Xenia).

After that I began to seriously review what I knew about feminism and society and try to work my own truth about motherhood into the conflicting messages society was telling me about motherhood.

I really feel that having my 2 babies is the best thing I have ever done in my life and this feeling was totally unexpected

Okay this is my story.
I was working in a job I didn't really enjoy, and about to be moved onto the project from hell. I then managed to crash my car, it was a total right off. As a couple we had to decide whether to buy me a new car or for me to quit my job (which I wanted to do). In the end I resigned, which as DH was moving jobs, and we had sold his house, meant we could move. By the time I had served out my notice I was pregnant (planned).
I did have a few job interviews, but really getting a job when you are pregnant and relocating isn't easy. So I drifted into being a full-time Mummy. Even once the baby came along I did do a few career enhancing/outside things mainly voluntary or courses. With DH providing child care or occasionally calling on friends.
So I slowly drifted into being a stay at home mum. Two more children came along at various times. I can remember talking to one Mum in the playground about how this wasn't how it was supposed to be.

I did look at job ads, but the ones doing what I'd always wanted to do involved too much travel.
Eventually I bought the Observer one Sunday, and there was an ad for an Open Univeristy course (T161 Returning to Science, Engineering and Technology). I applied and got funding for the course. Which was wonderful. It is all about looking at yourself and what you want. Looking at work life balance; and looking at how to refresh your skills and knowledge.
At the end I still wasn't totally sure what I wanted to do. However, I became increasingly attracted to teaching (which I had considered over the years at various times).
I am now training to be a teacher. We do have to pay as a couple, for afterschool, and before school child care. It is not the ideal career considering work-life balance. But it is what I want to do.

It doesn't mean that DH has necessarily done more of the domestic stuff. So what if our house is a bit messier. The kids are learning that they need to be a bit more self-reliant. But the oldest is getting the benefit of a Mum who knows quite a lot about at least one of his GCSEs, and how schools function. At present we get no more money (probably have to pay out quite bit more than we get in grants and bursary) but there is that hope for the future.
I have had to use friends to be emergency child care from time to time. But they have been very happy to help.

I do not regret my time with my kids. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Others from my course have done placements in research labs, set up their own businesses and I'm constantly hearing about opportunities to work on big engineering projects.

I also know a very fullfilled Mum who works for the CAB voluntarily, she gets flexibility and gives society access to great advice.

You can return to work later and contribute, gain self worth. We are not totally selling out by spending time with our kids when they are little.

skintbint I wasnt saying suck it up I was just saying i definitely wasnt simple doing my degree. I cant have any more children for a couple of years as we can only afford 1 child in nursery at a time as we are both on such low wages and I have to do temp admin, waitressing, chambermaiding jobs to keep us going. It is difficult in everyones family circumstances.

I would love 3 kids but its never going to happen :( It makes me upset all the time and I am soo broody but I cant have any more for ages so that is why I work with kids and want to do an childhood studies masters (If the choice was to have more kids and ditch the masters I know what I would be doing!) so I get to be with kids when knowing at the very most we can only have 1 more and even thats pushing it or going on benefits.

Its the area I live and the low wage culture means not many people are on much above the minimum regardless of what education they have got . My dream has always been to have a big family and I would rather do that than pursue a career but I just see it as I have to make the best of my individual situation. I know I could move but I dont want to leave my family so that is a bit my fault

All I want to say is everyone has a situation they would like to be a bit different but you just have to make the best of what you have sometimes. (Sorry if this is badly written and isnt meant to be having a go at you or anyone just want to say that sometimes you have to do one thing instead of the other unfortunately).

sunny, we are agreeing with each other - everyone has different family circs. that's the impossibility of it. there is no one answer.

i'm not sure about making the best of what you have sometimes, though - it sounds defeatist to me, and maybe how women have got into the whole competitive mummying thing. (just pondering on that, really, it's not a concrete thought). and then how the stay at home role becomes embedded - if this is all i can do, then i'm going to own it, and no man is going to be as good at it as i am, - and so the cycle is self-perpetuating.

i'm not a fan of dissatisfaction, but i wonder if it isn't a little bit helpful, too.

grass is always greener, eh?

Update:
had a bit of a ding-dong with dh over this. The upshot is that he is talking about us having a list of household things to do, so he can see more of what needs doing instead of leaving me to do it. He claims he doesn't have the sort of brain that sees what needs doing without a to-do list. Why he thinks a to-do list is a strange thing when applied to household tasks, I don't know - I often write one. But this is a revelation to him, apparently it is 'a work thing'. The dolt.

I'm going to find a careers counsellor and find a course to do with the aim of getting a Proper Job. Childcare options will be sorted then. The children aren't toddlers, it's not like they need a proper nursery or anything difficult. I'm going to keep in mind that I need my salary to cover half the childcare costs.

oh minty, that sounds really positive.

if he needs a 'to do' list in order 'to do', then that's an easy fix.

just getting it out in the open is a really good start.

hooray Minty glad to hear it (and once he's seen the to do list a few times he should hopefully be able to write one himself )

Actually, I am the OP 7 years ago. I can see quite clearly how I could become a "housewife by stealth" and I would love your advice on how to avoid it.

I and DH both have good, high earning careers. We want to have children in the next couple of years. I know that emotionally I will not want to work full time while the children are small, neither would it be logistically possible (without 24/7 nannies) given the hours DH and I work. I am hoping to go part time after maternity leave, but that is something of an unknown concept in my career and who knows if it will be possible. I suspect it may not. If it is not possible, I suppose it will come down to a question of choosing between the best solution for the short term (stay at home but bugger up career), or the best solution for the long term (stay working but miss out on time with children).

Any solutions or suggestions most welcome!

Minty - that sounds really positive! I'm dead pleased for you.

Interesting thread. I think a lot of the reason that women end up as 'housewives by stealth' is that the men become accustomed to not having to pull their weight, they fill their time with work demands and then the woman feels trapped because she feels her work has to 'fit in' with his work. Whereas if you both work and share domestic chores from the outset it doesn't get quite so much out of kilter. (I know, if my dh was a sahd, that would enable me to put a lot more energy into my career - and it would be a shock then to have to readjust).

Personally, i think that to combine work with active involve childcare (whether you are male or female) means choosing your job carefully and making compromises. If you both want to have fulfilling work, chances are that NEITHER of you can work silly hours/be 100% full on with work. But I don't think that is a bad thing tbh. If you want to rebalance, your dh has to realise that his life will change too.

Another thing I noticed about the thread is the difference between the responses from those who only have tiny children. It really is a different thing when they are older and go to school.

When they were small, my opinion very much was that I was happy being with them, I felt valued because I was doing a valuable job, the housework could go to hell, I was supported by my dh (he was great at recognising my contribution by being with them). We were also not at all well off and I didn't care (I wouldn't now either except that older children seem to cost more... :confused:)

They really need you less, or in less obvious ways. I've seen it said that filling a toddler's time with play is like a job to some people. In a way, it is. You use your time to do something you know is valuable and constructive. When they grow up and you aren't their main source of company any more - you feel far less useful and valued.

Well that's right - and to be honest I think that having nothing better to do than look after school age children, who should be becoming increasingly good at looking after themselves, is actually not very good for them - they grow up expecting that they will be looked after, and that it is women's job to do this. They need to know, and see, that keeping the show on the road needs everyone's contribution.
Though I think its easy to forget that they do still need time, just in different ways.

Blimey
I come back to Mn after a looong absence to ask about cupboards....
...and find a thread largely about ME.
Much thinking needed