Inspiration needed: is it possible to live happily as a mother of children without money or relatives for childcare?

[MintyBadger]

I'm struggling. I had a career, I stopped it around the time I had children. Naively, before dd was born, I assumed that I'd go back to work, nursery would be great, and all would be normal.

I did go back, but I didn't factor in a) that my brain was focused almost solely on my baby, that I may never get back the focus I was capable of before pregnancy; b) that dh's annoying inability to see dust would not get better, leaving me to assume the role of either sole housekeeper or shrew, despite many, many attempts to get him to take some fucking responsibility for his own environment; c) that my salary would pay for childcare (just) but there would be a net gain to the family of zero.

Of course some of these things I should have thought of. I couldn't predict a). b) is less my responsibility and more of a character flaw in DH that I now have to live with. c) I should have known but nobody spelled it out to me, frankly. I wish it was more talked about.

I was offered redundancy when the children were little and I took it. The change was refreshing. The dcs were small enough that I didn't feel I had to be a housekeeper, they were a mass of activity. Now they're at school and I just think: through no choice of my own, I have ended up responsible for ALL the childcare, cooking and cleaning - with the odd bit of 'help' from DH - while his career has grown and grown. A 'proper job' would require big changes in our family.

It was never meant to happen this way. I never wanted to do this, I never tried to do it, and I am ashamed that I have ended up being an unhappy stereotype. If the answer were as simple as 'get a job' then I wouldn't be asking here. I do some work from home already, and love the satisfaction and the money. But I am still not 'me.'

Is it the case that you don't get the 'privilege' (is it still a privilege?) of fulfilment and satisfaction without the childcare input from your family, or the hard cash that'll pay for a nanny? How have others got round this?

Hmm, well that died a death!
I see a few friends in a similar situation and don't really feel able to open up to them as on the surface everything is fine and the problem is bigger than whinging about our partners.
Maybe it is just me after all!

What is it that you would like in your life, is it to work outside the home full time?

What would make you feel like "me" again? And what would give you fulfillment and satisfaction?

I would like the focus in my life to NOT be 'the domestic'. Somehow, it is how I am defined. I am the mother-at-home, I am the wife-at-home. I work part time from home in my own business (that is to overstate how organised it is!) but if I work on that, I simply have to catch up later on maintaining the home - shopping, cleaning or organising cleaning, making sure the children are fed and occupied, play with their friends etc, not to mention wanting to spend time with them. DH works long hours and at home as well. We don't live near family. We can't afford a nanny and putting them in after-school care when I am 'at home' seems unfair.

It feels like anything that I compromise on in the home has an effect on the family in one way or another. I've ended up running the domestic show and I loathe it.

I was prompted to start the thread by someone saying 'he works, so it's only fair that you do the home stuff'. I thought, how come? I never signed up for this! He's a good person and will do things if directed, he's no feckless waster of a husband. I just can't figure out how we got to this point without my agreement.

No ideas, but you could be me.

I had a good job but gave it up quite willingly when I had ds 12 years ago.

Dh works like a dog and consequently I think it would be highly unreasonable to expect him to share chores.

I am basically a single mother - I have no family and very few friends.

I know what you mean in that getting a 'proper' job just wouldn't work. We'd need a lot of paid childcare, and since dh is out of the house for 14 hours a day and is away a lot I think that would be unfair on the dcs - plus I would be on my knees!

Some people I know who've done things differently now have rather stellar careers. How they'd laugh at The Brainy Girl at school now trundling a trolley round Asda and helping out on school trips.

Good lord Gramercy, yes you could be me. It is really, really nice to have it articulated by another person.

I don't know about you but I feel a mixture of things.
I feel proud that I've been a responsive mother so far. I gave up work because I was needed at the time. I'm not being a martyr about it, I think I have possibly outlived my usefulness as a f/t presence if that makes sense.

I feel resentful of dh that he doesn't acknowledge my contribution to his career (not out of malice, but because his sense of entitlement as a man, I suppose, means he most likely hasn't thought to acknowledge it).

I feel STUPID that I did not see this point coming.

I say stupid, because I'm a bright enough person, I'm not the sort who has ever said 'women MUST do x,y,z' either way - I have always believed there are solutions that fit every family. But I've not found one for mine and I'm now at the point where whatever choice I make will be mine alone, as will all the consequences.

Hi Minty. You said in your first post that you solely would be paying for childcare and so wouldn't actually make any money. I think this is wrong, the children are half your DHs and he is responsible for half of their care, where he cannot provide that himself, he should pay for it. I'm assuming you didn't willingly give up your life for your children and would now like to rebuild some of it.

My personal compromise would be for you and your DH to split the cost of childcare (well actually, he is the one earning so he should be paying it to be fair to you here, your worth is not solely monetary right now) to enable you to commit time to your business, whether you decide that is PT at first or whatever, you may need to build it up BUT basically, you have a right to a life, you're not solely there to allow your DH to live his without having to do pesky things like housework etc. I feel like you and your feelings have been swept under the carpet here. (I know the feeling too).

The way we got round was by being broke. Didn't go back to work till dcs were 1 and mobile (so felt a bit better at leaving them at nursery).

Went part time (public sector so fortunate in that role and salary same). For 4 years me working contributed nothing to the household as £my salary = £childcare. In fact we were worse off when dc1 started school cos we forfeited all our annual leave covering school hols. So didn't actually go away or spend any non-weekend time together!

But took longer term view - now both at school life is easier.

So it is possible, but you have to have sympathetic employers, a dp who views your career as importantly as his, and don't mind being broke with little family time for a while.

and yes agree with otehrs -childcare costs are both of yours to shoulder, not just yours.

God you're right.
I should have said 'half my salary pays for half the childcare.'
And that's not bad, is it? Completely agree about longer term view. Feel have fucked up quite badly. But, also, had little guidance to prepare me for how it might be. It's been SO easy to slip into entrenched domesticity. Ugh.

Oh Minty - I sympathise with you!

I started a thread along slightly similar lines the other day here

I am increasingly feeling as though I've been cheated, and become a housewife by stealth!

I'm determined to try and sort something out over the next year, taking a long hard look at what I want, and looking around for interesting jobs, albeit part-time ones (I think part of what I miss is having status and colleagues, which you don't get working by yourself, for yourself), or some more interesting and varied freelance work.

Perhaps we should start a thread to check in and share tips?! The "getting my life back" thread! So far all I have done is rant drunkenly about it, shocking the various people I was talking to (all men!) who all thought I was blaming my kids for the death of my career, which maybe I was a bit, but of course it's more complicated than that!

You haven't fucked up! Take the long term view. Have a 5 year plan, and work out what you need to have done each year to get there.

Bramshot, it makes me fume that men are so surprised that having kids kills a womans career and she's bothered by it! How the hell do they manage to keep their career going? By not looking after the kids full time, it's not fecking brain surgery.

Hi Minty, I sympathise! I am not in your position but to be perfectly (brutally) honest, your situation is what I fear most about motherhood.

It is so easy for mothers to think 'my wage won't even cover the nursery bills therefore it's just a vanity project and I should stay at home' but the impact on your career can be huge and irretrievable. I am back at work fulltime with a DD (2yo) in nursery fulltime and another on the way in Jan. I know I will go back to work fulltime a year or so after I have the second one partly for my own sanity but also because I am too afraid of turning into a skivvy.

If I were you, I would sit down with your husband and have a long talk about your situation. The current set-up is NOT working for you for many reasons and if one member of the family is unhappy then it's not working full stop. Can he cut back on his hours and take on more of the household / childcare responsibilities? If you started working again outside the home, could you get a cleaner? afford babysitting / childminder for after school? (getting a cleaner has removed an enormous bone of contention between DH and I). Perhaps if you are both looking at the situation 'in the round' you will come up with some creative suggestions, but he does need to know how you are feeling and how 'stuck' you are.

If you do want to go back to work on a more formal / fulltime basis, you shouldn't think about it in terms of 'I am doing this selfish thing and everyone else will suffer as a result' because that's just not the case. Yes, there would be a big change, but who is to say that this will be for the worse? It could bring about enormous benefits for all the family to have a happier more fulfilled mummy (if I were at home fulltime I would be utterly miserable and that's not something I want to inflict on my family)

How old are your DC btw?

Two things (I'm going to be blunt here):

Firstly, if you want a career in the long term it is worth the investment of your time now. I have spent the last two years working to cover childcare costs. It's not for everyone, and it can be soul destroying, but if you want a career long term, it is necessary. Also, I thought it was going to be a lot harder than it actually is, to be honest. once I got into the swing of things, it is had worked out fine. I honestly do not think my children suffer one iota.

Secondly, if you want to work, your husband will have to overcome his 'character flaw'. My husband is naturally absolutely shite at spotting what needs to be done around the house, but he bloody well has to get on with it now I am otherwise engaged. Granted, I have lowered my household standards since returning to work. Our house is no show home. But dinners are cooked, beds are made, school uniforms are washed etc. It all ticks over OK. It's actually focussed my time much more and I get what NEEDS to be done done and don't worry about the rest.

I totally sympathise/empathise with your predicament, btw, but the harsh reality is that if you don't pout your career up their on the priority list, nobody else will do it for you. Ask yourself what you want in 5 or 120 years time. If the answer is 'I want a career/more money/interesting, fullfilling work' bite the bullet and start making it reality.

excuse typos

10 years time not 120!

and 'there' not 'their'

argh!

"It feels like anything that I compromise on in the home has an effect on the family in one way or another. I've ended up running the domestic show and I loathe it."

This is the telling line for me. You may not realise it but you are taking full responsibility for the happiness of your entire family, and that's not fair on you. Not only that, but you are prioritising everyone else's needs above your own.

you have the right to have a life that is fulfilling. As part of a family, of course compromises need to be made, but not all compromises should be made by you. I second what was suggested earlier - you need to start by sitting down and telling DH how you feel. You've emphasised that he is not a bad person and I sense that you love him and have a good relationship. However, you cant move forward unless he understands how you feel. You need to agree as a couple first, and then as a family, that your needs are important and work out what overall compromises you will make.

Of course, part of this is figuring out what you need and want. But I would suggest starting by accepting that it's not all your responsibility will help.

as a sideline... sorry BlingLoving but I did have a giggle at the line: ''

I agree with you to some extent, but the realities of your own priorities do change beyond all recognition when kids arrive eg: it's just impossible to socialise with anything like the ease which you used to. Getting a night out with my mates is like negotiations at the UN!

Novice, I know I know. But I aspire to be like my sister who still manages to have a life and not be controlled by motherhood! I certainly wasn't suggesting that children won't be a priority, just that I hope to be the kind of parent who can still be interested in oter things and accept that sometimes my children won't always get what's absolutely best for them.

Shall we talk again once that baby comes?!

BlingLoving, we should start a new thread and not hijack Minty's but yes, as I think this thread is demonstrating, it is very possible to have a life outside of the family if that's what you want. I think the biggest surprise is that I don't want to be as selfish as I used to be and that doing fun things with DD is about as much fun as it is humanly possible to have. Why else would I be going to see In The Night Garden live at the O2 this Sunday at 9.30am? arrgh!

Final highjack:

Novicemama: hahahahahahahaha.

Oh lord yes it is a complete change when you actually have the kid - in ways you won't previously have imagined. I wanted to be with the children when they were little, I wanted to prioritise them. This is quite normal, not a virtue or anything! Also when you are utterly knackered it is quite encouraging that at least you can be an involved parent and tbh this is where I personally have gone wrong.
I do accept a vast amount of what's been said here - and I'm really glad it comes through that I love dh, I don't want to blame him at all, but YES he is an unwitting passive sexist. He would be horrified by this thread but I guess like most people who are a bit knackered by one bit of their life (work) it is easy to turn a blind eye to what's actually quite detrimental. (I think I have done the same with being too quick to be the one rock for the children, when there could have been other solutions.)
I agree completely about investment in career and regret not starting this thread 7 years ago because if I'd had that advice then, I might have got on a bit better.