So it would appear this topic is the Millwall of Mumsnet

[GothAnneGeddes]

Nobody likes us and we don't care.

I have to admit I lurk more then I post here, but to me, it's great being able to have everyday things discussed through a feminist lens, especially as most feminist websites are so US-centric.

It's just such a shame that so many women don't think that feminism is relevant to them. I just don't understand it.

millyR

I would just like to point out that I am not one of Starlight's "supporters".

yes, I normally hang out on the SN board.

yes, Starlight and I "know" each other from there.

But I am not posting here purely to back up what she is saying. I have not been recruited, either by any single posting of hers, or any thread she may have started.

"We go into patriarchy and complain. Patriarchy says, don't like it, get out. We say, no, we want to stay, just hear us, take us seriously, we can make this place better for everyone, even you"

Yes that's a really good point slouching.

I feel that's very similar to how some of the regulars in this section react,

"you don't like it? hide the thread/topic" which pretty much boils down to: "this is the feminist section, agree with us or get out"

And before anyone jumps on the last part of that sentence, no of course no one has specifically said that, but that is very much the impression given.

Well I have been chased off the SN section, and now I feel I am being chased off here. By a bunch of very outspoken people who are like a dog with a bone and will have no truck with different opinions.

Sounds familiar...

This is such a "pot kettle" situation I would laugh if I weren't so pissed off.

s'ok Star - we're just all so scary over on SN

maybe we're being referred to as a gang because we all agree that disability rights and provision are piss poor.

wonder why we all agree on that

I can't really see how all this is helping...

I don't really know any of the posters here, or much about the history that's being discussed. It feels very much that this is a thread that's really about working through people's past annoyance and resentment of what's happened on other threads. That might be therapeutic for some people but it feels as if it is actuall all just getting more entrenched.

Personally, I can't see an FAQ being workable because it being an FAQ implies that we have all agreed on the answers (and indeed the questions) which in turn is likely to be seen as even more authoritarian and 'my way or the highway' by some other posters.

I'm afraid I only have very woolly suggestions to offer in return, though, which are really about showing fairness, tolerance and respect for others' opinions. And maybe a new version of Godwin's Law should be introduced relating to the first person on any thread to say 'You're not a proper feminist if you think X'.

I would always interpret 'If you don't like it, hide the thread' as simply about people's personal choice to read what interests and rewards them, rather than 'agree or get out'. I don't read certain sections of MN because they're not of interest to me - e.g. self employed section.

MillyR, good stuff. The clothes thread gave me huge amounts to think about. It feels a bit "unfinished business" to me b/c there wasn't anyone who to offer perspective on my "what if the men look" question, but thems the breaks. If I'd written my FAQ, perhaps I'd find a link to helpful feminist writing on that topic...

Overall, this thread has been a powerful reminder to me that:
a) words matter
and
b) the interweb is a particularly crap place to have a heated discussion that stays positive the whole way through. I'm sure if it was happening f2f, nuance and body language would keep things somewhat calmer and happier.

I was on a thread discussing my feelings and experiences and was told that I should not have children. I was pregnant at the time and had a 1yo. I have not forgotten it and will probably never forget it.

Which is why I hid the topic and swerve away from any threads where these topics are raised, as I know that my experiences of being a child (and adult) with a disability are not welcome on teh SN section, as they do not necessarily agree with teh views held by parents of children with SN. It was a general thread where this happened, not a personal one.

That is what it was, I understand why people reacted against me as what I was saying did not fit their world view, and I was terribly upset and I left SN and hid it and that was that.

I do not want to go over it all again but I felt I had to say what it was in the face of being called a liar

My point is that there are topics on MN where there is a prevailing viewpoint and people who do not adhere to it get bashed. When this has happened to me I have thought "this place is not for me I will leave it". Yet when it's this section everyone seems to steam in and put the boot in instead.

i don't know why that is.

i am going back to lurking i think - if disagreeing with other posters is intimidating and oppressive, then there is really nothing to discuss

sad, really

fwiw i would love to know what the ideal feminist section would look like:

''what do you think about issue X''

''oooh you go first''

''no, you, i insist...have we discussed how issue X affects everyone who isn't a woman? it is v important to have balance you see''

''good idea, better still, let's not discuss, it's so noninclusive and threatening'

swc - if he does not have the capacity himself then presumably you make decisions on his behalf. I don't see why it's any different from making sure he doesn't run in front of a car and have no idea why you're being so fucking arsey with me when I have apologised for my earlier post.

I agree with you ISNT - I have a question which I would really like some input on from the SN section but I am terrified of it. The level of aggression from some of the posters is horrendous.

I am just trying to illustrate that these two sections probably have a lot in common. They are minority concerns, a small regular group of posters, there is perceived to be a "party line", people feel passionately etc etc etc etc.

That people from the one topic can't see that they are guilty on these very threads of what they are accusing the other group of, is just .

good post chibi

Silverfrog, I meant supporters to mean people who are supporting the same argument as yours, not people who are supporting you personally. I am sorry that was not clear in my post, but I couldn't think of a short way of making it clear at the time.

I have no memory of ever reading any post written by you, so I have no idea who you agree with or disagree with or whether or not you feel you have been silenced. As I don't remember you as a poster, I don't know how many of your thoughts or opinions are your own, but I don't think the extent of someone's original thinking is something that needs to be judged on a chat board anyway.

starlight I am truly sorry if you came away from the feminism boards having felt hounded. Perhaps you were. That is and never has been my experience of those boards (although only been there for a few months), and as you may well imagine, there is a lot of very different views given the breadth of the subject. If you can ever bear to go there again, I am convinced you would not have the same experience (however understand if you would prefer not to). People often say quite shocking things there I promise you.

ISNT - I don't think there is a party line on SN.

I certainly haven't ever come across one. there are all sorts of threads there with disagreement on.

Star - it's just another form of "if you don't like what we are saying, run along and play. there, there, dear

because, despite being disagreed with a lot, you still haven't come around to the party line

You all perceive it about the feminism topic.

I perceived it like billy-o when I was on SN.

There are similarities, whether you care to face up to that or not.

Bottom line is two interest groups clash and will not back down on which interest group they "support".

One side insists it is a debate about one thing.
Other side insists it is a debate about another thing.
Result = huge mess.

Difficulty is that this is a board specifically for one of those interest groups, and so being told that the debate was not anything to do with that interest group = even bigger mess.