So it would appear this topic is the Millwall of Mumsnet

[GothAnneGeddes]

Nobody likes us and we don't care.

I have to admit I lurk more then I post here, but to me, it's great being able to have everyday things discussed through a feminist lens, especially as most feminist websites are so US-centric.

It's just such a shame that so many women don't think that feminism is relevant to them. I just don't understand it.

'One earlier poster complained that she was attacked for being a SAHM on this here feminist section'

Belittling.

STW, sorry but I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to convey.

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You know, Milly, your response to my response is exactly what puts me off (and I guess others) too). I tried to write a clear and respectful post where I explained that I'd felt under attack by you.

Your response was not to say sorry for the effect you'd had on me, whether intentional or not. It was to ridicule me. And as it happens, you got your facts wrong while you did so.

Cos you said: "In my view, you didn't put that it was merely your view that there is a value in FAQ."

But my original post said:
"However, I think that there's always room for improvement. My personal wish-list would currently include:

• a FAQ thread"

I have highlighted the places where I specifically did express that it was merely my view that there was value in a FAQ.

I didn't say I wanted to write a FAQ. I said I'd like there to be a FAQ. I said I couldn't do it myself as I didn't have the skills, but I did post some ideas about topics that could be useful.

I don't see what I did that would possibly justify your choosing to express yourself in such hostile terms to me. What did I do? If, for some reason, you don't think you expressed yourself in hostile terms to me, let me tell you -- that's not how it felt from over here.

Many thanks to the others who have said they like the idea.

Sakura, were you not using the term 'this here' because it's one used by (supposedly) ignorant Americans (with southern accents, obviously)?

As in 'this here' bible is gonna slap you upside the head?

Or 'this here' trailer is double wide?

Sorry, it sounded like you were attaching that phrase to the poster's complaint to imply she was ignorant/uneducated in some way.

If not, nevermind and sorry. If so, think about why you would do that. It just wasn't necessary.

No Milly doesn't put me off

She's as straight as a die (is that a phrase?) and is not as ranty passionate as other posters such as myself.

Everyone's different.

There are some people who are really offensive on MN but Milly ain't one of them

slouching, honestly, I feel like you and slhilly are the word and phrase police

S, I was referring to your post to me when you said this, without stating that it was your view...

'Indeed, one of the values of having a FAQ would be that it could explain why women here have yet to make up their minds on some issues.'

And I do think you are personally attacking me by taking apart the way I construct sentences. I certainly do feel that my post where I talked about the problems of a FAQ board were aimed at you. I thought FAQ boards were being generally talked about and I didn't realise that you were even one of the posters who had raised the idea.

Just got back in.

TBH there are topics on MN where I diverge from the prevaiing and very shouty view, and so I dont post on them, I have hidden them. They are things that I feel strongly about and/or have experience in but the regulars on those topics are closed to other views, very quick to attack and don't give up until you leave. I have learnt from experience to hide those topics and not to get involved.

On the feminism topic the same thing is in play. I feel very comfortable and beacuse we all talk a lot and are often aware of each others POV and have had a lot of conversations before it can swiftly turn to "you're derailing/piss off" which must be hard for a person on the receiving end. However this is by no means the only or worst topic on MN where this happens. It happens on all topics which are fairly minority interest and hold people with very strong views.

I find the idea that people are starting threads on other topics about this section, with the express intent of slagging us off, pretty poor TBH. If you don't like it, hide the topic. Don't post. That's what I do.

Sorry! I meant that I certainly don't feel my post was aimed at you, Not that I do!

I am genuine about that - I did not know you had been talking about FAQ boards. I have no issue with you at all.

The fact that there are some women saying they feel unwelcome or put off by the feminist section surely means that parts are unwelcome and offputting?

Isn't that a shame where a section to support women some aspects are stopping women venturing in to learn and discuss?

I like to read but am always hesitant in posting as I've seen people shouted down and belittled for having a slightly different feminist viewpoint. It's also difficult to join in if you have no real education or are well read or not brilliantly 'wordy'

Hahahahaha....Sakura, that is pretty hilarious and ironic.

I'm trying to think about whether I do indeed frequently mention posters' specific use of language - I don't think I do but maybe it's a blind spot? Any other examples?

I only started posting on this here board very recently. I like it. I probably won't stop.

Oh well. Moving along...

laugh it off? I said "this here"

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I'm outta here

Is that allowed?

Starlight, yes I do agree that language is important in feminism. It is important in many ways including the way Slhilly brought up.

I am not sure exactly where the boundaries lie, but it is encouraged in women to say 'I feel, I think, In my view' in general society. It would be an interesting thread to start, to look at levels of assertiveness and aggressiveness in language use. There are probably a few people on here that have studied this kind of thing, although I haven't.

Thx Milly. Sorry for deconstructing your sentences. Shall we leave it all behind now? Seems like not worth expending further energy on.

Frankly, I doubt the FAQ thing will get off the ground just because it would be quite a significant effort and I don't know that anyone will be able to spare it.

Seriously Y'ALL.

A lot of women are saying they feel threatened or belittled on this topic.

It really, really is possible that it's because it can be a threatening, belittling board.

We go into patriarchy and complain. Patriarchy says, don't like it, get out. We say, no, we want to stay, just hear us, take us seriously, we can make this place better for everyone, even you.

That's all I'm sayin'. If we are going to 'argue like men' then we need to listen like men need to.

TBH I have hidden the SN topic after having some pretty repellant things said to me when I first poked my nose in. This is not a problem just with the feminist section. It happens on the MN boards which are minority interest and hold people with very strong views. However when that happened I didn't then go and get all of my friends and take them over in order to give them a virtual clobbering. I thought "well that's really fucking upsetting I won't be coming in here again" and left and went back once and the same thing happened and so I hid it. The hypocricy here is mind-boggling. People feel exactly the same about the SN board. I am sure you don't give a monkeys about that though, which is your perogative. But what is happening here is out of order.

SOL, I really don't think this section is any more hostile than many other sections of MN.

I was called, on this section, the 'craziest person on the feminist section' in a negative manner by someone who is a regular feminist poster. Yet I still come on here and post and people don't jump down my throat. I really don't think there is a clique who marginalise others.

SM, I have loved all the way through that you have assumed that none of us do have SN or disabilities or don't live with people who do.

I really do not need to come over to another board to find out about such things.

Slhilly, yes I am happy to leave it. I really liked talking to you on the 'sexy thread' and think you explain yourself well. I absolutely have no negative feelings towards you at all.

ISNT - really? you were set upon on the SN topic?

I find that very hard to believe, tbh.

maybe people were just disagreeing with you, and you didn't feel you could hold your own?