why do women collude in their own oppression?

[ColdComfortFarm]

Following the notorious Sebastian Horley thread, I feel utter despair at the way women defend their oppressors. Black people would never attend the funeral of someone who advocated cutting up black people with chainsaws, enslaving and raping them, so why do women? I'm not a fool, I know that society protects misogynists in a way it does not protect racists, but even so, why do women support women-haters in a way that Jews or black people (for example) do not? And how can we change this?

Strong men don't feel threatened by feminism, or by women in general

I mean that in a good way.

A strong woman is usually labelled masculine or at the very least unfeminine. But then what is feminine?

no, prolesworth maybe not, but it must cause conflicts...difficult ones....there are obvviously women who are into feminism more agressively than others. and i know there is a stereotype....i can see the equality thing and the fairness working in a relationship of course...but its the more militant side that seems to rear its head that..will always fall flat on its face or just be ignored ....or laughed at.

Yes, it is often laughed at, the militant side of feminism.
It takes a strong woman, like Kate, for example, to face off all the ridicule that gets thrown at feminists. But for a feminist being laughed at for her opinions is not as bad as being ignored. MOst feminists are simply ignored, they get no media attention, no platform to share their views, no funding for research...

As for men, put it this way, feminists are often very passionate people and that passion extends to the loves of their lives, male or female

i would hope it does Sakura...
I was wondering, do you think there is a stop point for feminism, i mean women are far diffenrent these days to say, the 50s era for instance.
Do you ever think that maybe there is a limit as to how far towards say equality it could go..without causing a breakdown of the family system or major chaos....as it were

As a feminist with a husband and son I find it hugely helpful to be a feminist

in what ways ColdComfortFarm....and im not setting you up here...i am genuinely interested how it manifests itself.......

Would you say that equality between races would destroy society/the family/cause chaos?

Feminists have done well, they've come a long way. There's another thread on here called "I'll hang up my feminist beret when..." discussing the stop point of feminism.

But when you think about the fact that two women are murdered every week in the UK by their spouse, and the UK is one of the better countries in its treatment of women, I'd say the family system has already broken down in that it's not working for women, and that we've still got a long way to go.

i have to be honest....i dont forsee a time when 'races' will be equal..there are too many variables involved i think....power , money , politics, territory..etc..
Equality between the sexes......whether you or i think its right is one thing...putting it into practise in life,love, and general living is a totally different problem..and yes i do think it will cause chaos, as it already does...but then again you could say, no pain np gain....problem is, most women dont want the pain and want family more......makes you wonder if its the way it should be....naturaly

I'm in a different time zone and I'm drinking so sorry if this sounds incoherent and garbled but:
I honestly don't think the human race is going to be around much longer anyway; the maths doesn't make sense. All the world's food is grown in a few countries, produced by slave labour (usually women) then transported around the world by plane. It's a completely unsustainable system.

Feminists have different viewpoints about family. I am one who believes that women do tend to feel a pull towards their babies. I certainly did. Wild horses couldn't have dragged me away from my newborns, but the problem is that patriarchy trivialises and degrades this work, in fact, doesn't even consider it to be work.

So even if women feel a pull towards family, that in no way means they are less human than men. Even if it's natural for women to be a particualr way it shouldn't be used as an excuse to oppress them through violence and poverty. And not forgetting of course that many women don't feel this way towards babies, many don't even have babies, but they are still oppressed under patriarchy because they're women.

good points sakura.....

And you can't say women choose pain or family. How do you think children get here?

yes i get what you are saying..so you have a relationship...then the woman decides to get into rad feminism...now that has gotta cause ripples in the relationship and family hasn't it....of course i realise not all are rad.
I do feel that the more radical things become in this....the less they are listened to....

i am sure in a while dittany or whoever will get on and read this and tear the arse out of it..lol!

I think that when objecting to male fantasies about dismembering women and raping their mutilated bodies is described as radical feminism then we do have a long way to go. I find being a feminist makes my home life much better. I don't have a bloke moaning about my not washing his pants properly for example, and we raise our children together.

ColdComfortFarm....lol.....you mean he washes his own?

I don't think radical feminism is in any way incompatible with raising children. I think it helps children, and society, because the priority is on women and mothers.

You could say that feminists, see men as more human, and more capable than a non-feminist because they expect reciprocation, and they know men are capable of it. And they can't tolerate male violence or misogyny because they don't regard it as being 'natural' or inevitable.

I read somewhere that radical means "getting to the root" as in getting to the root of the problem.

I tend to think feminism is necessary too