why do women collude in their own oppression?

[ColdComfortFarm]

Following the notorious Sebastian Horley thread, I feel utter despair at the way women defend their oppressors. Black people would never attend the funeral of someone who advocated cutting up black people with chainsaws, enslaving and raping them, so why do women? I'm not a fool, I know that society protects misogynists in a way it does not protect racists, but even so, why do women support women-haters in a way that Jews or black people (for example) do not? And how can we change this?

one good post after another....im sure somebodys going to spoil it soon...!

I told you didnt i !...and knew it would be dittany..lol!

I am returning to feminism after being turned off by 'it' for a brief period during my pursuit of motherhood and early motherhood.

However, my first 'feminism' was mostly informed by a very American, middle class, university lecturer 'NOW' feminism. Literally.

I had an identity crisis about it, really. I'm now finding my place again.

I have all kinds of new radical views that are polar opposite to my views before motherhood.

here we go again!..i happen to think they were good..ok whether you do or not is irrelevant.

of course i can assert authority about what i believe to be good and intelligent, which is what i thought of the posts earlier...balanced and well thought out..in my ever so humble male subservient position of course....

Sakura i know it's a wrong perception there are many different sectors within feminism however that part just happens to be pushed to the front.

As to collude that's a good point for such i guess they may look at things more abstractly, they may also just want to side more with men. But i think most women don't see men as oppressors so don't feel that they are colluding.

You know it's like the saying the greatest trick the devil pulled was making people think he didn't exist. A good comment it may apply here however just to make sure my comment is not misconstrued men are not devils and i am only using the spirit of the phrase.

"Women have sons,brothers,fathers,friends etc and family bonds are stronger for most people than that of bonds to a stranger who shares the same sex."

I think this is SPOT ON.

Dittany i don't agree with your global mens club idea black men for example are more likely to take interest in cases involving racism than sexism. The same for other minorities there are large groups of male and female (and i guess people in between as well) but within those groups there are smaller ones which people have stronger bonds to and they take greater interest in.

The pressure on women to conform, and the penalties for not doing so are huge, of course. And traditionally men assiduously police women right from the Taliban with their iron bars, to the Raoul Moats of our society and even the men who demand 'smile, love' at strangers in the street. In this context, I suppose the desire to be on the 'winning side' as I think Dittany describes it is a powerful one. Nobody wants to seem weak. Other liberation movements however have been better able to stand together, despite having been persecuted via, eg slavery. I suppose they are able to be more separatist, which is something heterosexual women or those who want children are not able to be. It is possible to oppose misogyny and have good relations with decent men, just as the Civil Rights leaders worked with white people - but we do hhave to see ourselves as equals in the partnership, and from what I see around me, despite the massive increase in confidence in many young women, this dream is still a long way off.
By the way, I pleased to see this discussion being robustly on track despite efforts to derail.

It's not meant as either/or it's more to do with them more likely to think but what about my son etc how will this affect my loved ones. Which means that their views would be in a way watered down if you get my meaning.

good point Sammyuni a womans feelings to her son/brother /partner and the ones she loves will more than likely coflict.....

OMG, men accross races definitely identify with other men before they identify with women. Without a doubt.
Women are "the other" beyond all "others"

and what about the loving and caring aspect of those feelings Prolesworth?...if this woman loves and cares for her partner son brother etc...do you think she would walk away from that in to the arms of feminism and risk upsetting and losing them....