War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

So sorry @Mb76 about what is happening in your home country. I hope your loved ones are safe.

Mb76 - there's not really anything I can say other than I'm thinking of you

Mb76 I echo SanFran, there's nothing we can say to make anything any better. We are all willing Ukraine on to victory but it must feel a bit hollow when your people are being left to fight alone.
Fair words butter no parsnips, as my mum likes to say.

Bakeoffrewatch, I noticed the weird time frame too and mention it in todays chapter recap. Rostov and Denisov have been home from the war for a year!

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 11

It’s the 28th December 1806. (So back at the ranch little baby Nikolay Bolkonsky is already 9 months old, doesn’t time fly! The year has certainly wizzed by: When Nikolai and Denisov came home on leave: ‘It was 1806, early in the year’, (Volume II Part I Chapter 1) have they been on leave a year? or has the war had a hiatus? Or have neither Tolstoy nor his editor wife paid enough attention to the timeline? I suppose Nikolai had his desk job over the summer 🤔, anyway I digress.)
The Rostov’s are throwing one of their legendary dinners, this time a farewell dinner for Nikolai who will be re-joining his regiment after Epiphany.
Nikolai arrives fashionably late, due to being Urgent Important, and finds that the atmosphere is decidedly off. Denisov is, as always, being charming and flirtatious with Natasha and has become her ‘champion knight’ (despite being FAR too old for her) but Dolokhov is seething with barely contained rage, and Sonya, Natasha and the Countess seem embarrassed.
Nikolai’s worst suspicions are confirmed when Dolokhov stalks off after dinner. Natasha rather gleefully (‘I told you so!‘) fills Nikolai in on the gossip, Dolokhov proposed to Sonya before dinner and she has refused him.
The Countess is beside herself - everyone knows, that on the face of it, Dolokhov would be an aspirational match for a penniless orphan such as Sonya, but as the reader knows Sonya is desperately, hopelessly in love with Nikolai and wouldn’t have even considered Dolokhov’s proposal.

Secretly pleased that Sonya has held firm, Nikolai implores Sonya not to turn down this ‘splendid fellow’ because of her love for him as he cannot make any promises for the future.
Despite him loving her ‘more than anyone in the world’ he concedes that he’s ‘been in love thousands of times, and shall be again and again’.
Sonya cuts him off saying him loving her is enough - basically sticking two fingers in her ears and sings ‘La, La, La …..’ so she doesn’t have to acknowledge the rest of his confession.

Just caught up on the last couple of chapters - continued thanks for the summaries Desdemona.
Nikolai made a right pig's ear of putting Sonia off. "I think I love you more than anyone in the world".... of course that's all Sonia will hear. Although her "I love you as a brother", was a bit suss.

Are we going to see Dolokhov's duelling skills being tested with Nikolai next? Or will he accept Sonia's rejection?

Gah - Nikolay thinks a lot of himself, doesn't he

Interesting how hung up on Sonya Dolokhov has become - although by all accounts, she is lovely. I'm not sure why he's being touted as such a good match for her - wasn't she basically betrothed to Nikolay or was that just wishful thinking. So are the Rostovs keen to marry her off outside the family? I mean, they see Nikolay as perfect so a 'penniless orphan' wouldn't be their ideal choice but wasn't that the pre-war plan? I'm not overly invested but just trying to get my head around it.

Funny how Boris hasn't reappeared to woo Natasha or is he still out in the field, somewhere. Doesn't his mum (Anna something) still live with the Rostovs? I know Natasha has apparently gone off him but you'd think he'd pop in to see his dear mother... unless he's just not got the money to take a year off, like the others?

So many questions

@mb76 there really are no words but my thoughts are with you and all Ukrainians.

@SanFranBear The Rostovs are in genteel poverty (hence the remortgaging to facilitate the lifestyle) so a poor wife for Nikolai will add to their money woes. Dolokhov is a (practically speaking) good match for Sonia, because he is not wealthy and therefore cannot/will not expect a great dowry which the Rostov's would struggle to provide as her guardians. Nikolai on the other hand, now has position in the army, position gained as an aristocrat but a lack of funds so he needs to marry within his class and ideally an heiress.

Sonya is also a cousin, isn't she, and there was quite a lot of talk about whether it was appropriate to marry cousins earlier in the book.

I think Nikolai's parents (or mother, anyway) aren't in favour of the match at all, and want a much more financially and societally advantageous wife for him.

Re: the time gap out of war on leave, I think there is a footnote in Briggs to say war became the subject again by December as Napoleon was threatening Russia's borders at this point after his two big victories, so it was all gearing up again, with lots of new conscription.

Dolokhov has obviously decided that Sonya is that one woman who can match his dear old doting mother. He wanted someone who had 'the purity of a saint' that he would be prepared to lay down his life for, and who would 'restore' and 'purify' him and 'lift him to a higher level'.
If he's decided that Sonya is THE ONE I don't think he's going to take rejection lightly. Particularly when he finds out the real reason she said no.

Thank you, Colomb and musicmaiden for the explanations - that makes a lot of sense. I hadn't really considered that the Rostovs are basically on borrowed time with regards their wealth so yes, they'll want Nikolay to 'marry up' for sure!

Will be interesting to see how the Dolokhov/Sonya/Nikolay triangle will play out.

Just to add to PP’s comments, @Mb76

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 11

Iogel has the best balls in Moscow, the lucky fellow.
The music teacher has hired a room in Pierre Bezukhov’s house for his latest extravaganza and the young Rostov’s and their houseguests are all in attendance. Natasha and Sonya are the belles of the ball.

Sonya is in high spirits, flattered by Dolokhov’s proposal, relieved to have turned him down and pleased to have finally ‘had things out’ with Nikolai; ‘she positively glowed with energy and joy.’

Denisov only has eyes for Natasha however, he is captivated by her and waxes lyrical to Nikolai about her beauty and gracefulness.

Nikolai and Natasha join forces to get Denisov onto the floor to demonstrate his fabled Polish mazurka imploring him until he capitulates saying:
“They’re stwoking me like a kitten”, and of Natasha, “Little sorsowess, she’s got me wrapped awound her little finger!”
He doesn’t take too much persuading though, and wows the room with his energetic and somewhat unconventional party piece. Sweaty and red faced from his exertions on the dance floor Denisov takes a seat next to Natasha and for the rest of the evening doesn’t leave her side.

Denisov is such a sweetie!

Oops the above is Chapter 12, not chapter 11.

I know, Denisov is such a cutie (at least so far!) Loving the mazurka scene :)

I enjoyed Denisov's antics in this chapter!
The Mazurka sounds like great fun.

Thanks for the summary Desdemona!

I enjoyed that... had a quick look at what a Mazurka looks like as well and my, it really is very bouncy

I loved that thanks @SanFranBear! I’m going to the “Dance for Ukraine” gala today, these images are from Ivan Putrov’s Instagram. I love the line about the power of dance. Isn’t that what Denisov is doing today, he has his battlefield power and then his dance floor power!

It’s interesting the divide in nationalism in the area with such a strong combined heritage, Denisov doing a Polish dance. Sergei Polunin (subject of the recent Netflix documentary “Dancer” www.netflix.com/gb/title/80105465) is “Ukrainian-born” Russian and has said he adores Putin. Ivan Putrov, is also “Ukrainian-born” and has organised the gala above. They both went to the Kyiv State Choreographic Institute and were part of the Royal Ballet company. There’s about a decade between them, Polunin born in 1989, so I wonder if there’s a generational divide to with those who were school age during Putin’s rise.

I found this article interesting too “War in Ukraine is tearing the world of ballet apart” www.spectator.co.uk/article/war-in-ukraine-is-tearing-the-world-of-ballet-apart

I also enjoyed seeing how different the balls were to those described in Austen type books. Much more free and no prescriptive etiquette, Natasha can insist on a dance with Denisov.

@mb76, totally understand and look forward to welcoming you to the thread when you’re ready. People have already talked about doing it against n next year too.

Mb76, I am so so sorry, the situation in Ukraine is heartbreaking.

Your lighthearted summaries are so entertaining, Desdemona. The 'Names, Tolstoy, names!' always makes me grin.

I'm another reader who accidentally discovered too early (from reading War and Peace reviews) that Lise died in childbirth. She seems younger and more childlike than ever in the final scenes of her life.

Dolokhov's views on women -- shudder! It's comical and frustrating to read about his mother's idealised perception of him: as she sees it, he's the unworldly one, and Pierre is cynical and conniving (hardly!).

Nikolai is clearly unworthy of Sonya's love, but at least her attachment to him made her refuse Dolokhov's proposal. It's the second time I'm happy to see a woman rejecting a marriage proposal in this novel!

Also, Dolokhov seems very grumpy at Sonya for having had the temerity to refuse him. Entitlement much?!

A 'dog in the manger' attitude I think, cassandre!

Yes definitely!