War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thanks cassandre 😀

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 13

Dolokhov appears to be avoiding Nikolai after his humiliating failed marriage proposal, but three days later young Rostov receives a terse invitation from his erstwhile friend, to a farewell dinner taking place that night at The English Hotel.

Nikolai attends the event, post theatre, but finds not a supper but a makeshift gambling den complete with free flowing champagne. Dolokhov looks at Rostov when he finally arrives with ‘clear, cold eyes’ that seem to have ‘long been waiting for him’, Nikolai feels uneasy and can see his friend is in one of his unpredictable moods where he becomes ‘reckless and usually cruel.’

Dolokhov is both the banker and the dealer and there are several indications that all is not right with this scenario. Dolokhov himself goads Nikolai, asking several times if he’s ‘too scared’ to bet against him and evoking a conversation they once had where Dolokhov warned that, ‘relying on luck was a fool’s game’.

With all this foreshadowing you’d have thought that Rostov would make his excuses and leave, or at the very least suggest they take turns dealing, but no, he enters the game and unsurprisingly gets deeper and deeper into debt. Even the fact that one of the cards he plays is a seven of hearts ‘picked up from the floor’, ‘with a torn corner’ doesn’t seem to ring alarm bells - now I’m no card sharp but that screams marked deck to me!

Soon he’s bet more than he can afford to loose on a single card, and as he vows never to gamble again if his luck turns, Dolokhov takes his time enjoying his moment of power; taunting Nikolai; “So gentlemen, in this city the word is - so they say - that I’m rather sharp with the cards I do advise you to watch your step when you’re playing with me…. Ugh, the gossip in Moscow!”
Unsurprisingly Nikolai’s loosing streak continues and Dolokhov warns him not to ruin himself but ‘[goes] on dealing’.

Thank you Desdemona!

Oh dear! That was not good. Nikolai! groans
I feel he should have known better. He recalled Dolokhov's words 'Relying on luck's a fool's game' before he started playing.

It's a slippery slope, though. Just one small bet...And Dolokhov is a slippery character. He knows exactly what to say to Nikolai to keep him in the game. He showed his true colours here. 'You mustn't go ruining yourself, though.' That was mean.

Such a frustrating chapter. Nikolai is a real young idiot and putty in Dolokohov's hands.

There's a moment where he looks like he's going to leave but then just gets deeper and deeper into debt. Lucky he's not alive in the days of online gambling!

I know, Stokey! I was thinking as well what a really poor idea it was to gamble on credit.

Part of the problem is that Nikolai is completely in thrall to Dolokhov, he still sees him as a friend. In Nikolai's brain Dolokhov can't have gone from loving him to hating him in the space of three days. There's probably an element of fear too because Nikolai can see the mood Dolokhov is in and last time he witnessed it the upshot was a duel.
He doesn't seem to have made the connection that Sonya turning Dolokhov down is seen by Dolokhov as Nikolai's 'fault'. Sonya told him she loved somebody else and Dolokhov has worked out, or already suspected, who that 'somebody' is.
Even when all the indicators are screaming, 'get the hell out, he wants to harm you', Nikolai sits down because Dolokhov obviously wants him to gamble and in some twisted way Nikolai doesn't want to let his 'friend' down.
These chapters are so frustrating I just want to bang my head against the desk and it's a scene that's very difficult to watch in the adaptation.

Ah...that's a good insight into it Desdemona.

What on earth has Nikokay spent his money on so that 1600 roubles will ruin him? His dad has just given him 20,000, so where on earth is it? I know he's been a bit of a tit around town but that seems an extortionate amount of money to have burnt through!

Anyways, Nikolay is an idiot and Dolokhov is cruel - neither things a surprise. Will be interesting to see what happens now? Are they in the same regiment (I don't think so - Dolokhov is infantry, isn't he?)

Yes but the 20,000 was sent to him when he was in active service, that's over a year ago now. He's been back to dear daddy for a top up since then.
I think the moneys gone on fast living - sharp fashions, a race horse, high class prostitutes and a demanding social life!

A trotter doesn't come cheap

🤣

I thought the 20,000 was a recent thing. Going to have to check as my memory is shot away

Ah wait... it was only 2,000 roubles and it was the previous Sunday to the gambling evening. I did try to see how much that is in today's money and have stumbled over a spoiler Let's just say, even if it was £2,000 - that's a shitload to burn through in a week or so!!

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 14

Rostov is already in over his head and the sensible thing to do would be to cut his losses and stop gambling. But, of course, he doesn’t do the sensible thing.

Dolokhov has decided he’ll keep winning cheating until such time as the total owed has hit 43,000 roubles - for no other reason than 43 is his and Sonya’s combined age.

Nikolai, aware now of the hatred emanating from his former friend, is confused; ‘He was my friend. I loved him’, he thinks to himself.

Once the total appears to have hit the pre-ordained number Dolokhov slams the cards down and begins to tot up his winnings. Nikolai tries to appear nonchalant whilst internally considering suicide - ‘A bullet through my head - it’s the only way out’.

The total has come to 43,021 roubles - Dolokhov generously allows Nikolai to win back the 21 coins on the last turn of the cards leaving a nice round ruinous debt for Nikolai to find.

Nikolai agrees to settle up the following day despite the sums involved and Dolokhov seems to imply that an arrangement could be come to:
“‘Listen, Rostov,’ said Dolokhov with a sunny smile, looking Nikolay straight in the eye, ‘you know what they say, “Lucky in love, unlucky at cards.” Your cousin’s in love with you. I know that.’”
“‘Your cousin …’ Dolokhov started to say, but Nikolay cut him short. ‘My cousin has nothing to do with this! Keep her out of it!’ he cried with fury.”

It is to Nikolai’s credit that he doesn’t even consider selling Sonya out to save his own skin because I can’t help feeling that he would be the one person who could have changed her mind about refusing Dolokhov, particularly if it meant rescuing her beloved Nikolai in the process.

I looked up what 43000 roubles would be in todays money and found two different estimates one thought, in 2014, it was considered to be worth £225,000. Another said 43,000 roubles would be the equivalent of 70 million roubles in 2015 which at todays exchange rate would be £526,000 - so either way a LOT of money to loose over a couple of hours at cards.

Was your spoiler the fact that he'd lost 43000 over all SanFran?
When I put 43000 roubles into google it's the first search that come up so it must be a common question!

I felt sick reading these two chapters. I was reminded of the quote at the start of the thread "There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative". Because of course, this is exactly how any addiction works - just one more.
Interestingly, I read something recently that suggested losing was as much part of the addiction as winning - you get as much dopamine from a losing bet as a winning one.

Dolokhov is such a nasty piece of work. Yes, it is a relief that Nikolai doesn't pressurise Sonya to marry him. That would be a whole different story of marrying for money and repenting at leisure, echoing that of Pierre and Helene but with a much worse outcome.

I'm finding it a bit hard to get into the chapter a day rhythm after my marathon catch up binge earlier in the month. I made the mistake of reading a bit ahead - because I was gripped - and then got confused about where we were up to, and lost the thread for a few days. I thought I'd try reading the chapter just before bed last night, but that didn't really work because I wanted to discuss/write about it straight away. I'll try earlier in the evening tonight!

Yes, @BishyBarnyBee, Tolstoy portrays Nikolai’s thoughts at each stage very vividly - making it hard to read. I really dislike Dolokhov, but I like the way Tolstoy writes him: he’s so charming - when he wants to be - and his nastiness finds an outlet in war. He’s not a pantomime villain.

I’ve been reading at bedtime as well, and going to sleep thinking of what I might discuss.

Thank you again for all the summaries @DesdamonasHandkerchief

BishyBarnyBee, if it's not working for you, you could always read ahead and then come back for the daily discussion that includes a reminder of each chapter.
I've read it before and I really don't think I'd be very good at a chapter a day if I hadn't. (I'm always at least a day ahead anyway so I can write the summary.)

Yes... the spoiler was about the 43,000 roubles. The bit I read though shows just how ruinous it's going to be, not just for Nikolay but for his entire family!!

I’m more shocked that his da gave half a million USD to him via courier during the war

Thank you Desdemona!

That was a hard chapter to read .

Thank you for putting the amount of money in context. I knew it must have been a lot, but wow, that's A LOT

I found that same comparison SanFran, 70 million roubles at todays rates is the £526k figure. But of course the rouble has lost 40% of its value in the last few weeks.

Thanks so much for the chapter summaries and the chat - I'm still reading and really enjoying it now. It's such a cleverly and well-written book - all the strands of the story and the characters interwoven and the fate of one character impacting on so many others. I'm a bit ahead at the moment, because I keep getting drawn in and reading 2-3 chapters a day, rather than just one!

Oh, of course - $'s to £'s! Such a lot of money to lose in one evening - and to claim to be able to pay it the next day... madness!

Wonder how the Rostovs will view Nikolay now - not such a Golden Boy, after all?

I really want to read spoilers for Sonya, I hope she ends up with someone nice and worthy and handsome! I won’t though

Thanks for the welcome earlier. Poor Nikolai - I hope Dolokov gets his comeuppance.