War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I note Tolstoy has stopped telling us how ugly Marya is.

Yes it was unexpected. Surprise, surprise!

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 13

•	August 17. Nikolai & Co. go out for a ride. Since they’re about ten miles away from Bogucharovo, that’s where they end up going, hoping to chat up some servant girls.
•	They find a bunch of the peasants milling about drunkenly and are told it’s a village meeting.
•	Just then Marya’s servant rushes out to the soldiers and says that the princess wants to know who they are.
•	Nikolai introduces himself as Count Rostov, and Alpatych comes out to him and gestures that they should move away from the drunkards to talk.
•	Alpatych tells Nikolai that the serfs are preventing Marya from leaving. Nikolai is immediately up in arms, and Alpatych fills him in on the details – for instance, that Dron quit his post as the head guy and has joined the peasants once and for all.
•	Nikolai goes into the main house and talks to Marya. She is relieved that he’s an aristocrat like her. He’s excited to get to be a big hero to this young woman.
•	He vows to deal with the situation and get her on her way.
•	She says that it’s no one’s fault and starts to cry.

Thanks @SanFranBear ! I get confused ...
The luminosity is increasing that's for sure. I feel she could be the answer to his prayers and vice versa, were it not for poor Sonya!

Didn’t Andrey emancipate his serfs at that estate earlier in the book? So they would be free but still peasants dependent on the land owned by the Bolkonsky’s? Or maybe he didn’t and just built the school/hospital etc.

thanks for prepping the new thread @VikingNorthUtsire Have a lovely break.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 14

•	Nikolai comes out of the house totally furious and starts yelling at Alpatych for not being more on top of things.
•	But this is clearly useless, so Nikolai rides into the village, where the serfs are already getting stressed and having a fight with Dron over the plan to stick around and wait for the French.

•	Nikolai decides to just charge in there and terrify them.

•	Screaming that they are traitors, he orders Dron and another leader to be tied up. He then orders the rest of the peasants to go back to their houses, which they do lickety-split.
•	Two hours later the carriages and horses are ready in front of the manor house, and the peasants are very carefully loading up Marya’s belongings under Dron’s supervision. (Marya ordered him to be released.)

•	Nikolai waits for Marya to leave and rides behind as protection. Then, when the carriage stops at a roadside inn to rest the horses, she thanks him and he says that no thanks are necessary.

•	She feels like he saved her life...and she promptly falls in love with him. She’s also kind of feeling like it’s fate that his sister and her brother’s engagement fell through so that Marya and Nikolai could meet. Right. Fate.

•	Nikolai, meanwhile, is also into her. But it’s stressful for him to think about her because – what about Sonya?

Ah, so they do know who each other are.... interesting 🤔

What about Sonya?
I think Sonya is going to be disappointed.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 15

•	Kutuzov asks Andrei to come by, and when Andrei shows up he runs into...Denisov! Remember him? He proposed to Natasha when she was 15 and he was Nikolai’s commanding officer? Good times.
•	Denisov offers some sympathy for Andrei’s dad’s death. (Clearly he didn’t know him that well.)

•	Anyway, Andrei knows about Denisov and Natasha from her stories. Both of them have some bittersweet memories about the old days, but then it’s quickly on to talking shop.

•	Denisov tells Andrei about the campaign plan he made up, about cutting off French communications. Hey, that sounds pretty good to us. Apparently that’s why Denisov is here – he wants to share this plan with Kutuzov. You know, just in case the army’s commander in chief doesn’t already have a plan of his own.
•	Kutuzov rides up.

•	Andrei tells him about him about Prince Bolkonsky, and Kutuzov sheds a few tears for his former friend.

•	But then it’s back to business. Denisov lays it all out, and it really sounds good. Kutuzov asks him to stick around.

•	Andrei watches Kutuzov deal with some army business and has a little moment where he starts to really get the whole Kutuzov thing. Andrei realizes that Kutuzov instinctively has it in for youth and intelligence and self-assuredness and is bored with Denisov and all the other idea men surrounding him. It’s not a malicious thing, and he’s not mad – he just has so much life experience that he knows better.

Yay Denisov is alive and well! And rather oddly slotted back into the narrative as though we hadn't all given him up for dead in that mouldering hospital 🤷‍♀️

I know, it's so strange that nothing is said about his practical death scenes of about a year ago... but YAY - Denisov lives!

Will be nice to see and hear about when him and Nikolay bump into one another... or maybe they have and Tolstoy just sees it as no consequence!?

He's got his noodle screwed on nice and tight as well - have to agree with Shmoop that his idea is sound.. wonder if Kutusov will take him up on it?

I’m going to call this the genius of Tolstoy.

You can't keep a good man down!
He talks a lot of sense.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 16

•	Andrei and Kutuzov chat a little, then Kutuzov asks Andrei to stay with him as a member of staff.
•	Andrei is like, thanks but no thanks – it’s the regiment life for him from now on.

•	Kutuzov thinks that’s a good call. He knows that Andrei is a good man, the kind they need with the soldiers.

•	Kutuzov starts talking about his strategy. Well, not strategy really, more like approach, or even just general outlook. For him, the main thing is to be patient, wait, and see how the chips fall before acting.
•	And with that, Andrei goes back to his regiment somehow relieved that Kutuzov is in charge. He gets that Kutuzov isn’t selfish or out for his career – he's just calm and mature enough to see the whole flow of the army and the war and the randomness of everything and not interfere too much.

Calm and mature and not interfere too much - we need more leaders like this!

I thought Kutuzov came across as rather passive. I wonder though how the generals managed to come up with any strategy as the field of battle was so vast, events happened so quickly and there was a real difficulty of obtaining up-to-date intelligence on movements of troops. It must have been a nightmare.

Was Tolstoy not being sarcastic when he commented that once Andrei had left the room, Kutuzov gave a sigh of relief and went back to his book? A French novel, no less!

I love how the story of how Nikolai helped Marya evolved into 'She was surrounded, they were trying to kill her, and the servants had been wounded. He just rushed in and saved her'. 😁

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 17

• In Moscow, meanwhile, same old same old. The French army gets closer and closer and people there are less and less concerned.

•	Julie Drubetskoy (Boris’s wife) is throwing a little farewell party before leaving Moscow the next day.

•	Her friends’ main concession to the fact that war is around the corner? They’re trying to not speak French, and when they do they have to pay a fine. What’s funny is that they can’t help saying four French words per sentence – that’s how bad their Russian is. (To get a sense of why this is funny, imagine if the leaders of the United States could barely speak English because they’d all grown up speaking French. That’s what happened with the ruling elite in Russia in the 19th century.)

•	At the party, everyone is gossiping about how Pierre has outfitted a whole militia at his own expense. Mostly they are laughing at the idea of fat, ungainly Pierre riding into battle.
•	When he shows up, the open mockery kind of stops, and Pierre laughs, saying he’s obviously not going to war himself.

•	Conversation then shifts to the Rostovs, who are not doing well money-wise. They are waiting for Petya to come back to join Pierre’s regiment before leaving Moscow.

•	Julie makes an allusion to the whole Natasha-Andrei-Anatole situation and Pierre snaps at her. She immediately drops it.

•	The conversation then moves on to Marya and how she’s clearly in love with Nikolai after the whole knight-in-shining-armor rescue.

I wish Pierre kept to providing financial support. He really isn't cut out to be a soldier. Poor, well-meaning, clueless eejit!

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 18
• Pierre rides home, checking out the propaganda posters hanging all over Moscow to boost morale against the French.
• He realizes that the war is actually coming and starts to worry. He lays out a game of solitaire and decides that if the cards work out, he’ll join the army. If not, he’ll wait.

•	He doesn’t go into the army.

•	Pierre’s estate manager comes and says that to outfit a regiment, they need to sell one of his estates. Pierre is fine with that.
•	None of his friends are left in the city except the Rostovs, but he avoids them.

•	Riding around one day, Pierre sees a crowd watching a man being whipped on suspicion of being a French spy. For some reason, this finally moves Pierre to action. He goes home ready to leave that night but is forced to wait until the next day. At dawn he takes off, feeling like he’s connecting with something bigger than himself.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 19
• OK, guys, we’re going to level with you. This next chapter is one of the reasons this book seems so hard. It’s basically a few pages laying out the details of how the battle of Borodino got set up, and it’s all military strategy and no dialog.
• But trust us, stick with it. Really read it and try to follow what Tolstoy is saying on the map. The whole novel is full of these kinds of zooming out and zooming back in moves – and it’s really hard to get what’s happening when you’re zoomed in without first getting a zoom-out overview.

•	So what did happen at Borodino?
•	Well, first things first. It makes no sense for either the Russians or the French to do battle there. The Russians are outmanned, so why lose more men? Why go from a ratio of 5 to 6 (Russians to French) to a ratio of 1 to 2, with the French army actually double the size of the Russian one?

•	The French also stand to lose at least a quarter of their men and be drawn even further into Russia. Not only that, but doing battle here would stretch their army out over even more land, thinning out their forces.

•	So, for Tolstoy, the whole battle happens just because it does, rather than from any kind of planning or forethought. It’s just hard to avoid being pulled along with the current, basically.

•	The place of the battle is also dumb. The Russian army passed a ton of much better positions on their retreat. Instead, the Russian position is taken kind of by accident, after a loss to the French at Shevardino forces the Russian left side back.

•	So, accident, fate, and inertia – these are the things Tolstoy sees as the main architects of war. Do you think that’s accurate? Why or why not? What do you think about the idea of the outcome of a battle being determined basically through the butterfly effect? (You know, a butterfly flaps its wings in Japan and that causes a tornado in Europe.)

I think that Tolstoy seems to know what he's talking about. He sounds convincing, anyhow!

I wonder if the Battle of Borodino is the last big battle in the book. I'm not flicking ahead or looking it up as I'm too afraid of spoilers.

I know nothing about it, but I'm convinced too!

😁

I'll post Thursdays chapter on the new thread.