War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

That was an emotional chapter. I knew it was coming but I still wasn’t really ready.

Oh no, poor Squirrel

I can't believe how little I remember from this and this actually made me really sad. I think Andrey has really changed and was ready to give far more to his marriage and then, snatched away. Its good that he clearly adores his son but I wonder what his future holds - they're not going to be able to keep his reappearance a secret so will he have to return to the war?

Sonya? Is that you??

The Little Princess

That was a difficult chapter to read. The reiterated message 'Look what you have done to me. Why did you do it?' really went through you. She was little more than a child. It's very sad to think that Andrei might have been kinder to her too, had she lived.

I came across mention of her demise when I looked up the characters a few weeks ago, so I was prepared. It was still hard to read. I think Tolstoy handled it very sensitively.

Thanks Desdemona. What is it with names?! So many called Andrei, Nikolai, Marya

A very sad chapter indeed. Sadly, I already knew the Little Princess was going to die in childbirth, despite never having read the book before. I looked up a who's who of characters as I kept forgetting how they were all connected and there was a bit more information than I wanted!

Although I found the scene poignant and am sorry Lise has died, I will not miss the constant references to her downy upper lip. It seemed to take on a life of its own, wriggling around like a furry little caterpillar. As someone with a dark moustache (which gets whipped off regularly), maybe I just don't want to be reminded about it!!

I don't know why they include so many spoilers in character descriptions it's very annoying

@ClinkeyMonkey I have taken solace from the repeated mention of her upper lip as a somewhat attractive feature, given my own propensity to a rather dark haired upper lip.

I often find the less said the more emotional in a lot of things I read. I found Andrei and his father consoling each other heartbreaking .

That was a sad chapter. Poor Lise.

@StColumbofNavron That's a good spin on it! I think I'll go with that now

Poor Lise indeed :(

I can't help thinking that Helene had a point earlier when saying she 'wasn't stupid enough to want a child'

So sad! I didn't know and wasn't expecting it, even after the pitiful animal screams and the final, most fearful scream. It seemed very sudden - I think instant maternal death at the exact point of the baby's birth is probably less common than death a bit later from continued bleeding or a post birth infection. But as Desdemona says, very common for women to die in childbirth at that time.

Yes, the whole scene and particularly Andrey and his father was heart breaking. I was irritated by the repeated accusing look on Lise's face though and yet again we have a woman showing joy when she is suffering - she is smiling with joy in the same paragraph that her eyes are full of fear and anxiety.

Lovely that the chapter ends with the grandfather besotted and worried about dropping the baby, and Andrey besotted too. As Fuzzy said, it's a real tragedy in that there was some hope that Andrey's wartime experiences might have made him a more appreciative and caring husband.

That was a horrible start to my morning, reading today's chapter on the commute. I had PNA and I was convinced I’d die. It really brought back that awful dread and fear. Childbirth is so risky. Poor Nikolay, a newborn without his mother. I had no idea this chapter was coming. I knew I was taking on an emotional rollercoaster in reading this, a book called “War and Peace”, someone upthread said they thought they’d be reading this classic at a distance, but maybe that’s why it’s a classic it touches on the real human high and low experiences of life. I can’t read stuff to do with perinatal tragedies, and have been giving that Ben Whishaw show and any article or posts about it a wide berth.

I can’t bear poor Lise dying, the delight of society, her husband ignoring her, banished to boring Bald Hills with her pious sister in law, her fate ending like this. She didn’t deserve it.

Also agree her downy lip is a pro for us of dark follicle heritage!

Without giving spoilers there are other occurrences that might be upsetting. I would hate for anyone to be triggered by any of it, if anyone who thinks they might prefer to be forewarned just say here and I don’t mind keeping a little list and PMing when I know they are coming. Obviously it’s about war but I can think of one or two things that might be upsetting beyond that. Tolstoy doesn’t dwell.

On the detail … posted too soon.

That's very thoughtful of you StColomb.

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 10

Count Ilya Rostov has ‘done a Vasily’ and hushed up his sons involvement in the dastardly duel, proving yet again that ‘It’s not what you know…’
Far from the expected demotion to the ranks therefore, Nikolai has been made adjutant to Moscow’s Governor General. Whilst his family go off to their summer house Nikolai has stayed in the city doing his new URGENT, IMPORTANT work and getting increasingly close to Dolokhov and his family.

Dolokhov’s mother Marya (names Tolstoy, names 🙄) waxes lyrical about the saintliness of her darling son Fedya, and we learn that the supposed affair with Hélène (and really, ‘who doesn’t have affairs these days’) had been going on for a year before Pierre spat his dummy out of the pram and threw down the gauntlet.

As Dolokhov convalesces he gets closer to Nikolai and takes him into his confidence, regaling him with his philosophy of life. Most people consider him a ‘nasty piece of work’ he concedes, but that doesn’t bother Dolokhov, he only cares about his mother and a few select friends - of which he considers Nikolai one.
Most people he believes are either useful or dangerous, he uses the useful ones (like Pierre one presumes) and crushes anyone who gets in the way of what he wants. Women he believes are particularly dangerous and ‘all for sale’.
Dolokhov is holding out for a woman with the ‘purity of a saint and total devotion’ (just like his dear old ma one presumes) such a ‘heavenly creature’ will restore and purify him, lifting him to a higher level.
'Oh rather!', agrees Rostov who is dazzled by his new chum’s brilliance.

When the family Rostov return to Moscow in autumn, (Denisov joining them in early winter) Nikolai brings his new BFF along to meet them all. Everyone is wowed by the dashing Dolokhov, everyone that is except Natasha - who turns out to be a rather shrewd judge of character. And further more, she tells Nikolai, can’t he see that during his many visits Dolokhov has fallen head over heels in love with Sonya. Nikolai poo-poos this assertion, but Natasha is spot on, and as Dolokhov spends more and more time at the Rostov’s gazing at Sonya with ‘longing in his eyes’, Nikolai begins to find excuses to spend less and less time at home. Like everyone else he feels uncomfortable around such naked desire, particularly when it’s aimed at his childhood sweetheart.

Love might be in the air but talk once again turns to war. Conscription has begun and soldiers are being called up. To his families dismay Nikolai refuses to stay at his Moscow desk job and is merely waiting for Denisov’s leave to be up so they can both return to the Hussar's regiment.

Thanks for the summary Desdemona!

May I join you? After desperately trying to catch up I ended up reading ahead a couple of chapters by mistake and it gets v gripping (no spoilers from me though) I am reading the Briggs translation, is anyone else?

I love how the seemingly innocent Natasha is such a good judge of the misogynistic Dolokov.

Thank you for another excellent summary Desdamona

Yes Desdamona your summaries are wonderful and very helpful to me. Although I love reading, I miss so much because I always have a running commentary of something completely unrelated to what I'm reading, playing in my head! Sometimes I have to read the same page 2 or 3 times and that is the case with everything from light fiction to more complex classics. I would love to get properly lost in a book!

Thanks everyone
We'd love to have you Rebecca. I'm also reading the Brigg's version and find it very accessible, although I know it gets criticised for not being as true to the original Russian text as some translations.

Maybe Sonya will be the making of horrid ole Dolokhov? Although I don't think she feels the same - it's implied she's still in love with Nikolay although not sure why - I know he's not a devil like many others but he just comes across as a spoilt, privileged young man which always gets my back up! He's dearly very naive though - he's moved his hero worship from the Emperor to Dolokhov now and whilst I'm sure the Emperor wasn't squeaky clean, I could sort of understand it. But then again, when you think you see a side of someone noone else does, it's easy to get sucked in! And with his mother explaining away all his sins, I can see how it'd be tempting to believe he's a different man from the one we've all grown to know. I mean, Dolokhov is definitely very brave - there's no doubt there. His behaviour on the battlefield really was courageous.. but I can't get over him shooting some poor man's horse and ruining his livelihood 'just for fun'..

Welcome Rebecca! Yes, I'm enjoying the Briggs edition. It's lively and flows well. I liked the excerpt from Peader posted recently. I thought it was very quaint and probably closer to Tolstoy's 'voice'.

Thanks for the summary Desdemona! I agree with your assessment of him SanFranBear. What an indulgent Mammy he has 'He is the kind of soul that is too exhalted, too angelic'

😂 at Dolokhov’s mum. I bet it’s really funny to read in Russian. Are you still reading with us @Mb76?

The bit where Dolokhov’s mum, Marya Ivanovna, says “why if he was so jealous - I can understand - then he should have let him feel it sooner, but no it lasted a whole year.” . Does that confirm the affair? Have they all been at home for a year? But the Battle of Austerlitz was 2nd December 1805, and this chapter ends with talk of war in autumn 1806. Confusing!

My extrapolations about Dolokhov’s conditional worship of women is confirmed 🙄. Sounds like he needs to get himself to Bald Hills for the pious plain virgin there who even has the same name as his mum!

“with all the loveliness of a just-opened flower” vomit 🤮🤮🤮

@BakeOffRewatch thanks for checking in … I haven’t been reading since the war in Ukraine started … I can’t seem to be able to enjoy anything just now while there’s so much horror and suffering happening to the people I love in my home country 😢
I will get back to it when I’m ready I’m sure. I want to be able be savour it But right now my head is not in the right place

The Briggs translation is currently reduced on Kindle for 99p. I have been reading the Maude version and am now going to switch to Briggs and see how I like it. I also have another translation in paperback, but I can't remember now who translated it and have only dipped into it once or twice. It's such a big book, that I prefer it on the Kindle so I can hold it up over my bowl of cereal in the mornings!!