War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 8

•	Are Marya and Co. actually in Moscow and out of danger? Not so much, it turns out.
•	When Alpatych came back from Smolensk, crazy old Bolkonsky all of a sudden started being super busy trying to somehow fortify their estate against the French, or something. (Who knows what’s going on in his head, really.)
•	The old man tells Marya to take Nikolushka and make for the other estate near Moscow.

•	He’s clearly not OK, so Marya for once in her life disobeys him and sticks around, sending Dessales and Nikolushka on ahead.
•	Prince Bolkonsky yells at her and generally is a huge jerk – but what else is new. She decides that since he didn’t have someone forcibly remove her, he must be glad she’s staying. (There must be a better way to communicate to someone that you want them around than, “Well, I didn’t have armed guards remove you, did I?”)
•	Anyway, it turns out that Marya staying was a good call. The next day Prince Bolkonsky collapses from a massive stroke.
•	He’s paralyzed and can’t talk much, but he clearly wants to say something. Now they really can’t go anywhere because he can’t be transported. (The carriage would bump and shake and rattle over every stone and pothole on the road, which was a pretty hard ride for even a healthy person.)
•	Marya watches him and realizes that she’s hoping to see a sign that he’s dying. She’s horrified but can’t help herself. Not only does she want him to die, but she is suddenly all excited about the possibilities for her future with him out of the way.
•	Meanwhile, it’s getting more and more likely that their estate is going to be in danger, and everyone needs to get the heck to Moscow as quickly as humanly possible. But of course, no dice, with Prince Bolkonsky on his deathbed.
•	Finally, the village police show up and tell Marya to leave. Right now.
•	She gets everything together, and the next day she goes to see her father again. He keeps trying to say something, and finally Marya figures out that he’s giving her a giant apology for the way he’s treated her all her life. Which...well, are we in agreement that this is probably too little, too late? But still kind of sweet.
•	His mind wanders, then he comes to again and tells Marya that she should wear her white dress because he likes it. Aw. We guess.
•	It’s totally working on Marya. She cries and goes outside. He has another stroke. By the time she comes back, he’s dead.

That was an excellent chapter. So many conflicting emotions. I'm glad they reconciled before his demise, but it's awful that he made her life so difficult for her. The reader also experiences mixed emotions along with Marya!

I agree with others: well-written, moving chapter (my DGF had a right-sided stroke too, and lingered for 6 weeks, poor man, although he was nothing like the Prince in personality).

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 9

•	So, a little info about the estate where the Bolkonskys are now. It’s called Bogucharovo. They’ve never really lived there, so the serfs there kind of manage themselves. This has made them a little less subservient and a little more freedom-loving. Also, they’ve managed to become pretty well-off too.
•	When Alpatych shows up, he can tell these serfs are all riled up about something. Turns out the French have been spreading propaganda leaflets around, and the peasants have decided to stay and join the French. They’re also resisting letting Marya leave.
•	Alpatych talks to their leader, Dron, who is between a rock and a hard place. He wants to do what Alpatych is saying, because he’s basically a loyal guy, but he also wants to do what the peasants want, since he has to live with them.
•	He tells Alpatych that, sorry boss, there aren’t any horses or wagons that Marya can use to travel.
•	Alpatych calls him out on the lie, but can’t do much about it.

Thanks Desdamona - I'm enjoying the Shmoop summaries.

For me, from here onwards was the strongest and most memorable part of the book and what has drawn me back to read again. I have a really clear memory of sitting on a bench on my local Heath/Common and imagining the battle of Borodino. [Not a spoiler as Schmoop mentioned above]. It’s from here that all the characters began to really elicit strong emotions from me. I had reactions to them earlier in the book, but from here they became quite overwhelming at times for me.

I can’t always remember exactly what happened in a book in detail to say why o liked it or not, usually I remember where I was and the reaction, emotions that they made me feel and this book truly gives me all the feels. In real life it’s actually quite a difficult thing to say because saying you loved W&P and have read it more than once can make you seem a bit pretentious, but I genuinely do love it.

It has truly been enhanced reading along in this way with you all and exchanging views.

Yes, StColumbo... I know that I did really love this book (and not for pretentious reasons) which is why I jumped at reading it again but couldn't tell you why..

It definitely feels like things are building to a crescendo and I am All In!

Have finally caught up after being behind for weeks. I find Tolstoy's philosophising over the nature of war and how history had reported it interesting in a way you wouldn't find in a modern novel.

The chapters about the Prince and Marya were moving. I hope her story arc improves now he has gone.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 10
• After her dad dies, Marya pulls a teenager stunt and locks herself in her room. She’s having deep thoughts about how it’s both sad and not too sad that he’s dead.
• Mlle. Bourienne comes to comfort her, and Marya immediately feels terrible for all the bad blood between them recently. They make up, and Mlle. Bourienne fills her in on the deal with the peasants.
• Marya doesn’t get how pressing the danger from the French is, and then Mlle. Bourienne gives her a propaganda leaflet asking everyone to stay put and saying that the French will protect them.

•	Marya loses it – after all this, she’s going to defect to the French? When her own brother is in the Russian army? She springs into action.
•	She meets with Alpatych and then Dron. It’s kind of an amazing scene. To her, Dron is still the same guy who brought her presents from the fair when she was a kid. But to him, obviously, she’s his boss/owner.
•	Again he says that there aren’t any horses, and that the peasants have no food.
•	She makes a quick executive decision to distribute all the stored grain to them. She’s not really clued in on this process, but she has a general sense that this is sometimes done when the serfs are in trouble.
•	Dron sighs and asks to be released from servitude.
•	She doesn’t get what he wants and pledges her devotion to him and the rest of the serfs.

Thanks Tarahumara

I got caught up in the events of this section and have galloped off to the end of chapter 39. It was harrowing and I feel quite wrung out. It's excellent though.

I think the characters have all come of age now, so to speak. They have come into their own and have reached maturity. We know who they are by now and hope for a happy ending for them.

I think reading the book slowly and having to invest time reading it will mean that it will leave a lasting impression on me. I'm guilty too of reading a book quickly and moving on to the next one with only an impression of liking it or not.
Keeping a list of books read is a good way of keeping track, but even then I can become forgetful.

And as StColomb said, this group chat is very insightful and enjoyable.

I loved the little detail of Marya imbibing a bit if her brother and fathers spirit as she rejects the idea of fraternising with the French. It reminded me of Pierre channelling his dead father's scary side way back. It's all in the details.
Great post @IsFuzzyBeagMise agree fully.

Thanks @RebeccaNoodles
Yes, I thought that was very cleverly done too.

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 11

•	An hour later, Marya gets word that all the serfs are outside waiting for her to come speak to them.
•	She’s all, what? Why are they there?
•	Dron says that they came on her orders. Again, she’s like, what orders? I just said to hand the grain out.

•	But she decides to go out and speak to them instead of sending them away.
•	She feels strong as the voice of her brother and tells them that she’s going to give them all the harvest if only they’ll take their stuff and leave the estate along with her.
•	The peasants listen but don’t seem on board.
•	They don’t want the grain – actually, they don’t need it – and they don’t want to abandon the estate either.
•	One of them says the choice is basically go with Marya and remain a serf, or stick around to join the French and become free. They all prefer freedom, thank you very much.
•	Worried, Marya ducks back into the house and orders the horses and carriage to be prepared. Oh, we’re sure that’s going to happen.

Aaaah... thanks for that summary, Desdemona. I was a bit confused why the crowd was so against Marya and thought she was being pretty generous but given the choice of perpetual serfdom vs freedom, I can't say I blame them for being against her in the slightest.

I felt sorry for Marya. She seemed to think she was doing the right thing and treating them well, although 'we're all in the same boat' is not true at all.

Dronushka's plea of 'let me go, ma'am, for God's sake' signals his desperation to live a free life. You would wonder though what his life would be like afterwards. I am inclined to think it would be more difficult or just as difficult.

Phew, I’ve caught up again. I’m also finding the Schmoop summaries very helpful. What an interesting character Marya is. She has buckets of integrity, but she has led such a restricted and sheltered life. The scene where she meets the peasants, well-meaning and clueless as she is, is quite remarkable – Tolstoy showing us class conflict.

Ah, thanks Desdemona and others for explaining what's going on between Marya, Dron and the surfs. Have to admit I was a bit confused although it's terribly atmospheric and tense - Marya trying to pull things together surrounded by staff and servants who dislike her, and the French only a few miles away ☹️

It's all a bit "let them eat cake" isn't it? A lack of understanding of the situation of the serfs and what they actually need.

FREE THE SERFS!

Oof. It was hard reading and very tense. I've probably misread it but I didn't think the serfs necessarily wanted freedom. They just wanted the prison they knew. I think these chapters shows just how deprived they were in every way - materially, education - which didn't make it an easy thing to set about improving their conditions. As Pierre discovered. Marya was lucky indeed that Nikolai turned up.

The stifling heat in these chapters also feels very real right now!

Sorry, I've just realised my post contains a spoiler! I read too far ahead ... will try and get it deleted.

I know it's a bit early but we're about to disappear into a very rural area and not sure how my mobile coverage will hold up, so I've started the new thread here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4592789-war-and-peace-readalong-thread-2022-thread-3

Hopefully we can manage an orderly transition from this thread to the new one when the time comes...

Volume 3, Part 2, Chapter 12

Marya spends the night in her room reliving the night her dad died, the final words he said to her, and how horrible it was to see his body, knowing that he wasn’t in it anymore.

Not to worry, RebeccaNoodles - Nikolay has rocked up now 😆 I wonder how taken he'll be with her luminous eyes when he works out who she is? It's a very interesting development, that's for sure!