War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thank you :)

Sorry to hear that Viking hope it improves soon.

I’ve been wondering about the Rostovs’ fortunes too, they haven’t checked into the workhouse yet.

Interesting summary as always Desdemona and highlighted what I hadn’t twigged before, that Andrei’s disillusionment with Speransky echoes his falling out of love with his first wife as the other person doesn’t live up to sustained scrutiny.

Everyone worrying about the Rostov’s being late has made me smile. I think people attended multiple things every evening way back when, though this was obviously an important ball - but I’m sure (as sure as reading 19th century novels can make me, so not very) that you usually arrive,
socialise, dance and isn’t supper or whatever at something like midnight and these things go on until the early hours with more dancing, card tables etc (I’ve probably watched too many historical drama too be honest).

I don’t find Natasha particularly annoying but I don’t find her endearing either. Natasha-like characters are prominent and recognisable (though exaggerated) in lots of Middle Eastern and Indian cinema and TV. Characters are often presented massaging their mother’s feet whilst having a chat, being devastated if they upset their mothers and kissing hands, hugging and altogether behaving in a way that seems unnatural to a western audience. I can’t speak for the Russian case or Tolstoy’s intentions but I watched hours of these things so I think Natasha is probably played down for me 😂. I think she still has a way to go, but I can remember being a bit OTT like her as a teen.

I’m really enjoying this readalong so much. Thanks @VikingNorthUtsire for setting up and hope you are feeling much better soon.

@DesdamonasHandkerchief Obviously thanks to you for keeping us all on target.

And I just love the conversation and things that come up.

the other person doesn't live up to sustained scrutiny

That's a lovely bit of psychological analysis, Cornishblues. I like it.
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Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better, Viking. Some fun and games in the last few chapters, for sure.

Poor Andrey - everything seemed to just come into focus for him, didn't it? Love you analysis, Cornish - definitely seems to be how Andrey is... all in, 100% and then boom - no interest whatsoever. Sounds like he's keen to head back to his estate so will be interested in what he does next.

Hope you’re fully recovered soon @VikingNorthUtsire

Chapter 19
One night, Prince Andrei goes to the Rostov house for dinner and falls even more in love with Natasha, whose simplicity is so rare in Petersburg high society. It is her singing that most strikes him. But when he gets home, he recommits himself to a serious life and contemplates going abroad.

I think if Andrey does go on a Grand Tour, when he gets back Natasha might be significantly less annoying, to me anyway! I think she just needs to grow up a little which needs a little time. Although, isn't Central Europe about to plunge into their side of the Napoleanic Wars... well, Spain & Portugal at least (my knowledge of history is not very extensive!)

Chapter 20
At their new home, Lieutenant Berg (now a colonel) and Vera Rostovv_ hold a soirée in imitation of those they have attended before. Although the newlyweds have a competitive relationship and tend to bicker, the evening starts out well.

The bit with both of them trying to talk to Pierre about completely different things was funny!

Gah! I'm a day behind. Not sure how that happened!

Berg and Vera are either going to live very happily together in mutual smugness and delusion, or they will be miserable after a month!

I thought the whole thing was rather funny and sweet - everything exactly like it is everywhere else which I'm sure was exactly what they were aiming for 😄 Berg is definitely pretty conceited - here's hoping it doesn't trip him up as I rather like Vera, coming from the viewpoint of the slightly overlooked child in a family.

Chapter 21
Vera makes Prince Andrei uncomfortable by subtly probing him about his feelings for Natasha. She mentions that Natasha is flighty and may not be ready for true love. Pierre observes this and tries to help Prince Andrei out, but the other guests keep distracting him.

Yay finally caught up!
Vera is being a real cow in this chapter bringing up the childish pash of Boris and Natasha and rubbing Andrei's face in it.
Of course there's the usual Tolstoy/Dickens issue of a man in his 30's being infatuated with a girl of 16 🤮 but I suppose the past is a different country and all that. It seems that Andrei has learnt nothing of his marriage to 'the little Princess' and is perhaps ready to try the same format hoping for a different outcome. Isn't that the definition of madness?

Chapter 22
Countess Rostov and Natasha suspect that Andrei will propose imminently. They are both happy with and frightened by the prospect of this excellent marriage. Meanwhile, Andrei confides in Pierre that he intends to marry Natasha, a development that saddens Pierre even as he tries to support his friend.

I thought Vera was as subtle as a brick.

I thought Pierre came across as such a good friend in existence chapter.. the bit where Andrey expresses how much he wants to talk about it and Pierre says 'go on then' (paraphrasing slightly 😉) I thought showed his kind and generous spirit. I do feel for Pierre - even though his situation is sort of his own making, he was definitely manipulated into it and I, for one, would like to see him happy.

*this chapter
(Not sure where existence came from!)

Yes, I would too, SanFranBear. His heart is in the right place.

Chapter 23
Later, Prince Andrei travels to Bald Hills for three weeks to ask his father’s permission to marry. The elder Prince Nikolai Bolkonskyy_ advises Andrei to wait a year before marrying Natasha to ensure that his feelings are real. Andrei agrees to a one-year engagement, which he will keep secret so that Natasha can change her mind without repercussions. Back in Petersburg, Prince Andrei proposes to Natasha, who eagerly accepts. Although the one-year engagement initially upsets her, she agrees to tolerate the delay.

And with one kiss, Andrey's feelings change drastically - from love and affection to pity, dismay and duty! The way it's written seems to imply its a good thing but they seem pretty negative thoughts to be having for your betrothed, just after they've accepted your proposal.

I liked hearing Natasha's thoughts about him, how she barely knows him and yet can't wait to spend her life with him. It seems so alien now - marrying someone (especially with no prospect of divorce) who you know nothing about... he's so much older, too. Do you think that's why the Count & Countess are so scared of him... seems an odd emotion to have as well. I mean, it's a seriously strong match for Natasha given her lack of money & social standing (which Andreys Dad was quick to note!) I'm sure it'll work out super well - look how well the couples from 'Married at First Sight' last 😉

My thoughts exactly, SanFranBear!

I was thinking, 'oh no, here we go again!'

Yes, it's odd how it is written in a way that is sympathetic to Andrei. I don't understand why Tolstoy would have wanted the reader to approve of such inconstancy?

Ummm interesting... I felt it was not su much inconstancy but that Andrey recognises, as Natasha can't yet, that this is the end of the 'dream' and that now it's all the serious business of marriage and of course children, which must be sobering given what happened to Lise .... it's not a romantic attitude but I thought it was a good example of Tolstoys gift for conveying those nameless difficult feelings humans have.

I do also feel a bit worried about this engagement! But I like that he gives her an 'out' with the years probation