War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Yes, but Natasha still won't get to know Andrey as he will be away!

Good point Fuzzy. I agree it's not a madly appealing prospect. Perhaps they will write letters!

Many letters I hope, Rebecca 😁

Chapter 24
Prince Andrei gets along amicably with the Rostovs, although his relationship with Natasha is sometimes awkward. He goes abroad, but encourages Natasha and Sonya to confide in Pierre if they need help with anything. Natasha grows quite ill upon his departure, which worries her family, but she recovers within a few weeks.

I've just caught up on the last few chapters. I did find Andrey's change of attitude a bit odd, like a soon as he knew she wanted him he was less interested. It did seem like the Andrey of old. Natasha dramatics are still a bit annoying. I didn't really get why they all seem a bit scared of Andrey, that seemed to be the word Tolstoy uses most around him.

Chapter 25
Princess Marya Bolkonskyy writes to Julie Karaginn, consoling her for over her brother’s recent death. Marya has always secretly hoped that Julie will marry her brother Andrei. She writes that there is no truth to the rumors Julie has heard about Andrei marrying Natasha. Meanwhile, Prince Nikolai's health is continuing to decline, which puts added pressure on Marya.

Just a quick shout out that it's the end of a section tomorrow, I am going to do my damndest to catch you up (OMG I am still reading Parks and Rec fanfic, it has taken over my life in a very unexpected way!).

I have to say, a run of chapters on the masons and government reorganization is not helping me to read quickly. Let this be a warning to everyone not to fall behind if you can help it.

Oh, I need to catch up. My reading has slipped a bit lately - work has been busy plus we’re gearing up to move so spare time at the moment is filled up with decluttering and trying to make the house look presentable for photos and viewings.

Argh... last chapter reminds me why I don't do organised religion.

Chapter 26
Andrei writes to Princess Marya, revealing his engagement and asking her to talk to their father about shortening the engagement by three months. The elder Prince Nikolai responds sarcastically and cruelly - the same tone he has used with Marya over the past few years. Marya wants to join the people of God, the itinerant beggars she hosted earlier in the novel. She buys the appropriate clothes, but can’t bring herself to leave her father and nephew.

Poor Marya - she so needs to step outside Bald Hills and see the world, doesn't she.

We're at the end of the part, aren't we? It was very spiritual, this section - with Pierre joining the masons, Andrey questioning his path in life and ending with whatever Marya was up to. I know at the beginning of this read-through, people said how little they were looking forward to the more philosophical parts and I couldn't remember them at all. I'm not sure I hate them, as such, even though they're quite long-winded in places and a tad dull in others - I think they provide some lovely insight into the characters. I particularly liked Pierre's awakening - he's still a bit of a wally but he's adjusting better to his lifestyle and still has a big heart.

Wonder if we go back to war again now?

I don’t mind philosophical musings that occur naturally along with the text - e.g. Marya just now against the letter and goings on. It’s really Pierre’s stuff with all the Masonic bits that I found trying, when a chapter is totally devoted to that.

I’ve really enjoyed this section. So much has happened and we’ve seen different sides to characters and watching them change and adapt. Even Natasha, has gone through some phases in this section.

@VikingNorthUtsire hope you manage to get through. I try to religiously stick to my daily chapter either over breakfast or in bed because of this, if you get a run of chapters that aren’t you me thing it can be slightly harder work. The last two weeks I’ve read the whole week at the weekend and it’s still really been 30-45 mins.

We are 40% through according to my Kindle. Loving reading with you all.

I read on my Kindle before getting out of bed. The only time I skipped was when I overslept, jumped out of bed and forgot all about it.

Analysis of Volume II, Part 3
In this section, the narrative is driven more explicitly than ever before by the question of how to live a good life. For most of the characters, the measures they have taken in the first third of the book to achieve success and happiness have not panned out. Pierre has made little progress in his quest for spiritual fulfillment, and his efforts to help his peasants remain insubstantial. Prince Andrei becomes disenchanted with his attempts at professional success, in both the military and the legislative branch of the government. And Princess Marya enjoys taking care of her nephew, the young Prince Nikolai Bolkonsky, but still feels unfulfilled religiously.
Each of these characters takes drastic measures to improve his or her life, but Tolstoy always foreshadows, implicitly or explicitly, that these efforts will make little difference. Pierre tries to bring Masonic principles into his life by nurturing the romance between Prince Andrei and Natasha Rostovv_, even though he seems to have feelings of his own for the young woman. Andrei pursues a relationship with a woman half his age, hoping that her youthful naïveté will help rejuvenate his enthusiasm for life. Princess Marya contemplates joining the people of God.
However, these attempts each get off to a rocky start – Pierre cannot stifle his feelings for Natasha; Andrei is unwilling to accept his father’s very reasonable objections to the marriage; Marya ultimately cannot leave her grouchy father and young nephew. Through these botched attempts at change, Tolstoy suggests that real change is controlled by fate and cannot be influenced by human efforts. What is explored then, is not any proposed solution to these dilemmas, but rather the human struggle against our limitations.
Their inability to find true fulfillment can also be understood in terms of the recurring conflict between material and spiritual life. The issue in some ways is that we cannot be solely of one or other realm, but instead that each realm will counteract our attempts in the other. For instance, Pierre wants so desperately to find a happiness worthy of his spiritual longing, but cannot control his animal impulses towards women and drink. Therefore, he commits more and more fully towards the Masonic rituals, not because they themselves hold the answer, but instead because they allow him to renounce his material life. Andrei, likewise, has decided to rejoin the material world, which gives him important stimulus, but he is quickly turned off by its pettiness. He is torn either way, and even his noblest attempts - to help usher reform - are ceded by the reality of bureaucracy and government.
The one character who begins to indicate a middle ground is Natasha. Tolstoy does a marvelous job of introducing the character by degrees, so that she becomes more and more central to the narrative as it progresses, even though she has been around from the beginning. What she has that seems to enchant both of the central characters is an ability to find a spirit in life, to project spiritual fulfillment not by renouncing the material world but by diving headlong into it. One could argue that this ability is what draws Andrei towards her, since he himself is seeking just such a synthesis. Notice how her illness - brought about by her fiancee leaving her alone - cannot triumph over her indomitable spirit, which loves life too much to be kept down.
Throughout this section, the romantic drama plays out against a background of political reform. Although Prince Andrei Bolkonskyy_ is a fictional character, the people he interacts with on the reform committee, and the issues they discuss, are historically accurate. In 1805, the Russian system of government had been unchanged since the rule of Peter the Great, one hundred years before. Most of the state functions were carried out by inefficient committees whose duties often overlapped.
Moreover, most government employees were members of the nobility, given jobs as a sign of the tsar’s favor rather than based on qualifications. Tsar Alexander attempted to make changes to the structure of government as well as the procedure by which government employees were hired – this is the examination that Andrei discusses with Speransky. However many of these changes were abandoned when Russia re-declared war on France in 1810. (Silvester) Tolstoy achieves a great effect in merging the fictional desires of his characters - their spiritual longing - into the realities of political reform, again stressing implicitly the way that every individual can have an influence on the world around him.

Thanks, Desdemona. The interpretation of Natasha as finding a balance between the spiritual and the material is interesting, even though I'm not sure the novel has really demonstrated that yet! I did appreciate the fact that she seemed quite resilient -- for instance, in Ch. 23 when she thinks Andrei isn't interested in her any longer, she is dejected for awhile but then resolutely resumes her musical exercises and finds joy in them again.

Poor Marya, she's so desperately unfulfilled. Despite the responsibility of looking after her nephew, her life is so static; it hasn't really changed since the beginning of the novel.

Keep plugging on, Viking, you are about to get to some more readable chapters soon!

Thank you for posting the analysis, Desdamona!
I always find it interesting to read.

I wouldn't have said that Pierre is interested in Natasha as much as he is missing having a significant person in his life to love and cherish. I don't think he has feelings for her, or perhaps I didn't pick up on it?

Poor Marya. Ongoing unhappiness. One of her sources of joy (her nephew) is also a tie that binds her to her family home and her father.

I'm looking forward to the next installment.

I agree, Fuzzy - I was surprised to see the analysis talk about Pierre also being interested in Natasha so if you're blind, so am I! I think he's just looking for some meaning to his life, not even really for love. He's like a little (well, rather large) lost soul and I really do hope he finds some happiness in the next section.

I wonder if we'll reconnect with Nikolay soon as he was annoying me but I quite liked watching him lose his innocence (evil laugh)...

Yes - I thought the same about Pierre and Natasha in the analysis.

a little (well, rather large) lost soul... definitely! 😄Yes, he's looking for meaning in his life.

I took a sneak peak at the next chapter and it features Nikolay. It seems like ages since we've last seen him.

From Gradesaver

Volume II, Part 4
Chapter 1
After returning to his regiment in 1807, Nikolai Rostovv spends the next three years there, avoiding home because life is simpler in the military. He eventually returns home in 1810 when Countess Rostovv writes him a letter begging him to come help get the family’s financial affairs in order. He also learns from the letter about Natasha’s engagement to Prince Andrei, and is dubious about whether their marriage will succeed.

Haha... ask and you shall receive 😄 Good to hear how Nikolay is getting on and sounds like he's doing rather well, actually.

I can't believe there wasn't an update on poor Denisov although am guessing as so much time passes, even in this chapter, he's died? I do wish this loose end would get sorted out... he made us care for him, he's got to tell us how his story ended (if it did?!)

I know I'm a few chapters behind still but I've just read this bit. Made me chuckle how clearly Prince Andrei has got "the ick" for Speransky, to the extent of being disgusted by his white hands and the way he strokes his daughter.

What was Tolstoy like in real life, going round looking at everyone's hands!

I agree, SanFranBear. I want to know what happened to Denisov too.

There is a suggestion that Andrei isn't well. I suppose it's more about having a rest rather than any physical ailment.

I’m hoping Denisov has retired to a nice little dacha.
Andrey had a nasty wound, and wasn’t expected to recover. His health may be permanently affected.