War and Peace Readalong thread 2022 - thread 2

[VikingNorthUtsire]

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.
• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes
• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/0099512246/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

NB also this link for the kindle version: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Vintage-Classic-Russians-ebook/dp/B005CUS9AG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Signet-Classics-Tolstoy-ebook/dp/B001RWQVXA/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

When we started this readalong I really didn’t think there was much to spoiler but I am constantly sitting on my hands. I enjoyed it the first time a lot but this time the sheer genius behind all these different strands is really apparent. It’s a huge undertaking and for me is really successful.

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 15

Nikolai returns home a broken man. He’s incredulous that life chez Rostov is as loving and convivial as it always was whilst his own life has been turned upside down in the last couple of hours.

Natasha and Sonya are by the clavichord - looking beautiful and carefree, Vera is playing chess with Shinshin, his mother plays cards with (yet another) long term house guest and Denisov is casting cow eyes at Natasha and wooing her with a song he’s obviously written about her called ‘The Sorceress’ (An obvious throw back to Iogel’s ball when Denisov described Natasha as a “Little sorsowess” who had him “wapped awound her little finger.”)

Nikolay is restive and discomforted, as well he might be given he’s about to confess that he’s lost a fortune. The banality of the cozy domesticity contrasts sharply with his inner monologue - still toying with the idea of suicide, “My God I’m ruined my honour’s gone. Bullet through the head, that’s my only way out,”

Sonya realises that something is badly wrong with her beloved Nikolai, Natasha has picked up on the vibes too but is too self absorbed to acknowledge her brothers mood so she shows off and sings instead. At first Nikolai is incredulous, “How can she sing at a time like this?" But as she continues her lovely voice captivates him and he realises this is what is important (by association not just the singing but love, home, family one assumes) and finds himself singing along losing himself in the moment.

Poor Rostovs... their lives will never be the same once Nikolay has dropped his clanger!

I enjoyed it the first time a lot but this time the sheer genius behind all these different strands is really apparent

Can't help but agree, StColumb - I've read this before but really feel like I'm reading it this time. So glad I joined you all for this - it truly amplifies the greatness of the story... and I thought it was pretty damn good first time round.

Poor Nikokay, poor Rostovs. I wonder if this will be a turning point for Nikokay now? I hope he will give Dolokhov the cold shoulder from now on.

There is only one more chapter left in this section!
Thank you for all the summaries Desdemona.
They bring brightness to the thread, but they must be time-consuming.

Aaarh thank you Fuzzy, you're always very kind.
I'm about to get a break because we're entering Pierre's long dark night of the soul next and I'm going to let Gradesaver take the strain as it's the first philosophical section Not really my bag!

Is it time to break out the vodka then

I've just read ahead a chapter and I think vodka will definitely help!

As long as it's not Russian Vodka.

Ukrainian vodka

That's the stuff 🇺🇦

Oh gosh… how can we be at this section already! It seems to be going really fast.

Thanks as always for your brilliant summaries, Desdemona.

I found this chapter slightly unconvincing but hauntingly beautiful. I feel like Tolstoy describes these huge, pure, heroic emotions coexisting with baser/negative feelings. So Marya's sorrow involves heavenly joy, and Nikolay's shame and despair co-exist with this sublime transcendent moment.

I don't feel that I've ever experienced or been aware of anyone experiencing that kind of juxtaposition of feelings. It seems to me it has a quasi-religious feel, but it's different to the classic AA style spiritual awakening through hitting rock bottom. I find it very interesting even though I'm not quite sure what to make of it!

Thanks Bishy, I agree it odd the juxtaposition of extreme feelings - although Nikolai's moment of ecstasy only lasts as long as the song! Then it's back to castigating himself!

Volume 2 Part I
Chapter 16
The old Count comes home from his club ‘jolly and contented’. Nikolai seizes his moment, fighting back the tears he tries to strike a nonchalant note but instead comes over as crass and off hand.
There’s an excruciating exchange where Count Ilya is typically indulgent and loving - all ‘boys will be boys what’s the damage this time son?’ type thing - before the shocked realisation of the extent of Nikolai’s loses and the implications this will have on the already over extended family finances.

Nikolai, mortified and embarrassed, tries to style it out -‘“Can’t be helped! Everybody does it”….. outwardly brazen and breezy’. But inwardly he feels the shame and dishonour of his actions. He’s aware he should be down on his knees begging his father’s forgiveness not treating his disgrace as a casual rite of passage.
When Ilya, obviously shaken and disappointed in his son, echos Nicolai’s words that this ‘happens to everyone’ and commits to trying to raise the exorbitant sum required, Nikolai can keep up the pretence no longer and, like a child, cries, ‘Papa, Pa-pa ….Please, forgive me!’ seizing the old Count’s hand, pressing it to his lips and finally giving into the tears he’s been suppressing.

Meanwhile in the drawing room Denisov has proposed to Natasha and she, like every good 16 year old, has run to tell her mother.
Her mother is appalled - as well she might be, because I’m imagining Denisov to be at least twice Natasha’s age and not of a social rank that the Countess would deem marriageable material.
Much emphasis is put on Natasha’s youth, her mother reflects that she has, ‘only just grown out of playing with dolls and was still in the school room’, she is ‘indignant at the very idea of someone treating little Natasha like an adult.’

Natasha, who has obviously enjoyed Denisov’s attentions, is flattered and excited by the marriage offer but determines to tell him that she cannot accept his proposal because she is not in love with him.
He hears her ‘little footsteps’ and leaps up asking her to decide his fate which is solely in her hands. She tries to let him down gently but the Countess bustles in telling Denisov, in what he perceives to be a harsh tone, that her daughter is too young for him and he should have consulted her before asking for Natasha’s hand.

Denisov, much like Nikolai next door, is humiliated and embarrassed, stammering his ‘wegwets’ he takes his leave without a backward glance, leaving a sobbing Natasha in his wake. The following day Denisov leaves Moscow having drowned his sorrows at a ‘grand send off’.

Nikolai hangs on for another two weeks whilst his father gets the money together to repay his debt to Dolokhov. He spends most of this time with Natasha and Sonya, the latter being even more ‘attentive and affectionate ’ than usual, trying to demonstrate that his stupidity at the card table has ‘made her love him more than ever’ but Nikolai feels unworthy of her devotion.
Finally he sets off to rejoin his regiment in Poland at the end of November.

Hang on, What??? The end of November? Have we skipped a year? That fateful night of gambling took place on the 28th December. Has Nikolai got a time machine? (In which case, hurrah, he just doesn’t attend Dolokhov’s farewell do, problem solved) or does Tolstoy and Mrs Tolstoy, chief draft reader, need to pay more attention to timelines!

Ooh, I didn't pick up on the date discrepancy. I'm guessing it's a typo, maybe? What version are you reading?

Poor Denisov - I hope it doesn't make him do anything rash in the height of battle. I've got rather fond of him.

I'm looking forward to the next bit as it feels like poor Pierre hasn't been around a huge amount. I'd like to get to know him better and I've certainly had enough of Nikolay (although would've like to see more of the Bald Hills lot!). I can't believe old Count Rostov managed to raise the money as it was a huge amount and am pretty pleased Nikolay pissed off back to his regiment pretty damned quick after payment.

I'm reading the Briggs translation SanFran. I'd be interested to hear if other versions mention November.
I've just looked it up and apparently Russians celebrate Christmas Day on 7th January, which would make Dolokhov's 'Farewell Supper' gambling night 10th January, not that, that helps with the confusing timeline

My version (Maude) also says end of November.

I'm glad someone is keeping track of the timeline! I only keep a general grasp of it!

I'm glad that Nikolay asked his father for forgiveness. There is hope that he realises the seriousness of what he has done and will learn from it.

Another person here who was blissfully unaware of the timeline -- my translation (Pevear/Volokhonsky) also says November, so I assume it's Tolstoy's error. 'Even Homer sometimes nods', as the proverb goes.

Those gambling chapters were excruciating to read. I remember how indignant Nikolai was when his fellow soldier committed a theft, and how passionately he took the moral high ground -- he's lost his moral superiority now.

I bloody hate Dolokhov though!

I'm intrigued to discover what Desdemona refers to as Pierre's long dark night of the soul!

Russia also used the Julian calendar until the Revolution. E.g. the Feb Revolution was on 8 March according to the Gregorian calendar but 23 February according to the Julian so dates are out there as well. Though I am not sure it makes much of a difference to gestations and leave from service.

You all pay much closer attention to timelines than me

I'm also a great deal less sympathetic to Nikolay than most of you - frankly, Dolokhov signalled so blatantly what he was up to that I'm not quite sure what level of blind stupidity was needed to ignore him.

And having done so Nikolay then expects his parents to pick up the pieces - yes with an apology, but frankly why should the rest of the family have to suffer for his imbecility (eg Natasha presumably will have no dowry now, and will be wishing that she had accepted Denisov as I'm guessing that'll be it for suitors).

I'm certainly wishing she'd accepted Denisov, can I have him if she doesn't want him? I think he's wavishing.

@DesdamonasHandkerchief

I'm certainly wishing she'd accepted Denisov, can I have him if she doesn't want him? I think he's wavishing.

oh weally?! Well I suppose he does dance the mazukka...

I’m still reading along, although don’t have anything to add to the discussion that hasn’t already been said!

Did a bit of Googling, and previous readers have commented on a) the length of Lise’s pregnancy and b) the Christmas/November issue. Apparently Tolstoy is very precise with dates relating to war, but sometimes a little vaguer with dates in the characters’ private lives.

I imagined Denisov doing the mazurka as like John Travolta…