The Unconditional Parent -- is this bollocks or for real?

[oregonianabroad]

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but am torn between thinking it is totally revolutionary, and then the next minute I think the guy is smoking crack and wouldn't last 2 minutes with my ds. (of course, he would have an answer for that, another of the things that turns me off about his argument).

It also seems clear that he evaluated all the books on the market and decided to write one with a radically different approach (a discipline book about how not to use rewards/ time outs??? how novel!).

SInce I bought the book on the basis of a few recommendations here, I am interested to hear what you lot think.

Sorry to hear that Oregonian. Sounds like you are doing your best to break the cycle.

Don't mean to sound dramatic, Otherside! But yes, I have realised this is not the way I want to parent.

PS Thanks for all your advice on Xmas gifts.

oops, too dramatic

xenia, my parents never used punishments or rewards either. These methods are also alien to me in my parenting.

Growing up, I wondered why I never got grounded or had things confiscated or pocket money cut like my peers, even though I could be very trying as a teenager and terribly stubborn as well. But I was always glad my parents never resorted to them because I would have raged against the unfairness of their arbitrary sanctions. Wonder where my dd gets her personality from

Brilliant thread, I'm learning so much!

The book is on my list to read.

I just wanted to point out something which has worked for me with the non-negotiable stuff like car seats: I try very hard to present these in a very matter-of-fact way as "that's how we do it".

I strongly avoid any sense of I want you do to this, because then it frames the conflict as being between me and the child and makes it much more emotional.

Not sure how this would square with Alfie Kohn of course, but it does seem to work.

That is, it works when I remember to stop screeching and try it.

On the subject of car seats, lately I have been trying to take Kohn's advice not to rush (whenever possible). When we can, I let ds1 take his sweet time getting in on the wrong side, messing about, climbing into his seat himself; all while I am busy getting his brother strapped in and the car sorted. Usually this prevents our usual battle -- so, why did I think he needed to be strapped in first??!

Walnut, breastmilk combined with sugary foods, eg dried fruit on the teeth (ds has always been a big fruit eater) can definitely lead to decay. Kellymom points out that breastmilk alone is not a problem unless combined with other foods:

"Much research indicates that it's the other foods in baby's diet (rather than breastmilk) that tend to be the main problem when it comes to tooth decay. The 1999 Erickson study (in which healthy teeth were immersed in different solutions) indicated that breastmilk alone was practically identical to water and did not cause tooth decay - another experiment even indicated that the teeth became stronger when immersed in breastmilk. However, when a small amount of sugar was added to the breastmilk, the mixture was worse than a sugar solution when it came to causing tooth decay. This study emphasizes the importance of tooth brushing and good dental hygiene"

Ds always fed throughout the night and I wanted to be happy about continuing to do that. Making sure his teeth were clean when the night started was important to me.

That's such a good point Oregonian.

I've often caught myself stressing at them because they're dawdling, when in reality we're only hurrying because I didn't allow enough time.

You'll probably totally flame me for this, but when my DS1 tried to bite 7mo DS2's nose off, drew blood and left scrape-marks on his nostrils, I did love him a bit less. And if I hadn't put him in the porch while I calmed down, I would, frankly, have battered him across the room.

Nonetheless, I'm aware that my "if you don't put that down, I'll..." isn't working. SO will try and get hold of books from the library to try other approach.

Special Magic,
I have felt exactly the same this week. And I think certain types of situations call for serious responses, whatever your parenting style. SOunds like you did the best thing in the moment.

How old is your ds1? Mine is 2.8, ds2 is 8 months. The sibling thing is really challenging. If I leave them alone for even a split second, ds1 will get on top of ds2 and jump up and down on his rib cage (solution don't leave them alone, ever). Makes me want to throw him across the room.

MIne are 3.2 and 17 months, and I'm quite a calm person but the big one attacking the little one makes me feel furious and helpless every time.

You can't walk away, you can't ignore it, you often have to use some sort of force to stop it - it's just so grim.

Indeed, Welliemum.

The same people who wrote HTTSKWL have a sibling one, which I have bought but not read yet (will start a thread whenever I get round to it!)

Yikes.

By the time I fniish this lot, they'll be at university....

LOL wellie mum

The sibling one is good too. Mostly about not comparing and helping them learn to work out their arguments on their own. My children are 4 and 2 and it is starting to work although the eldest takes the lead most of the time.

Specialmagiclady did you REALLY love your child less? I have felt furious when DS hurt DD especially when she was a baby but when I calm down, look at things from his point of view and sneak a peek in on him when he is asleep, it is impossible not to love him completely.

Thanks for clarifying Franny. Just an issue close to my heart.

Oregon, you will have to let us know about the changes you are making as you progress through the book. I think it's a whole philosophy to absorb and (to whatever extent) internalise and from that you make changes naturally rather than in a prescribed format. Good luck.

Ordered the book last night. Its date of publication here in France is 22/11/2007.

Oreganian, DS is just turned 4 and the way you describe the bed routine is pretty much how we do it. I think the problem is that when he started at school this September he got quite tired, but now he is coping fine with the stimulation, so we are having to add on swimming and walks after school (but it is still not working in terms of tiring him out). I think it is just a case of coping with an overactive child - his dad was a high level sportsman and I was also very hyper, so I think he's just inherited some kind of jumping bean gene from us (he has less than 10 hours sleep and is always up well before 6am). Ah well.

Squiffy - could you entertain the idea that you are putting your DS to bed rather too early?

Squiffy if DS(nearly 3)says he isn't tired and doesn't want to sleep, he doesn't have to, he gets told it is bed time, which means he has to go to bed, he can read a book if he likes, but he doesn't have to go to sleep.
Can you not give him something he can do in bed??
Personally I wouldn't offer all the choices of the top bunk,bottom bunk, ready bed, my bed etc. At four it is still very easy to confuse a child and fill their head with choices.

In our house we have an exchange like this "It's bedtime, come on then upto bed",
"mummy I'm not tired"
"ok, you can read a book or play with your cars, or just lay down quietly, but you don't have to go to sleep"

I agree- the sibling thing was and is definitely one of the single most difficult things about parenting. Miy oldest child tried to kill his sister (21 months younger) in increasingly creative ways every single day from the day she born until she was 3 years old. I also could not leave them alone for a second. It was stressful, but in the end I had to accept that they also had a relationship to build between them.

What made it worse was the pitying looks and comments I got from other mothers whose sweet little kids were delighted by the arrival of a sibling, helped with nappy changes etc etc, were never jealous, and would never have tried running out into the middle of roads (having evaded 6 ft gates), sticking screwdrivers in sockets (having first removed socket covers) undoing seat belts on motorways, etc etc, because they were just far too good to do that.

Also:

I am convinced that siblings "speak" to each other well before they are truly verbal. My daughter competed with and communicated with my son in unspoken ways from an extremely early age (before 3 months), and, I am convinced, deliberately wound him up from that age. She was determined to do everything he could do, only better, and mostly, she has. I can still remember her at 3 months pulling herself to sitting from lying down in the pram, so that she could see what her brother was up to on the floor (probably so she knew what he was going to do next and fend him off!)

And you have to love parenting books written by "gurus", most of whom seem to have limited experience of the day to day grind of bringing up children. As with most parenting and cookery books, I'd imagine this is one to be aspirational rather than to be taken as scripture. Of course in an ideal world we would love each of our children unconditionally for what they are, but what if what they are is a violent criminal? Do we condone them? I suppose the Krays' mum loved them unconditionally, and they went to have successful "business" careers.

I just want to say that I have had the BEST DAY FOR A REEEEEALLY LONG TIME today with ds1, all thanks to me chilling out, not forcing things that aren't necessary, and him being a bit more chilled in response. I have also let everything else slide in order to just be with him and let him take the lead.

Fab day. Really pleased.

Wow, that's great, oregonian!

Did you use ideas from the book or was it off your own bat?

Reading the book has changed my outlook on parenting and the methods I use as a result. I am sure there will still be days or situations when I resort to time-outs (although I now think I will sit with him instead of force him into solitary confinement), or when I will praise him in a manner that Kohn might find patronising, but it seems we are much more in sync with each other than at the beginning of the week (when I was tearing my hair out, convinced I was a horrible mother).