If you are slim, please tell me how the conversation in your head goes

[whatisheupto]

If you are over the age of 38 and reasonably slim / not overweight, please tell me this:

An hour or two after dinner when you really fancy a bit of toast, do you tell yourself "no" and force yourself to resist the urge? When your brain nags you again, do you give it a firm "no" until and tell it to go away?
When you really want a small bowl of cornflakes before bed, do you just stop yourself and ignore the hunger pangs? Do you tell yourself "come on, you can do this. Think how good you'll feel tomorrow"

Do you tell yourself these things every day? For years? And rarely give in to temptation?

Or do you just never usually fancy a piece of toast or a late bowl of cornflakes? So it's just not a problem for you?

Are slim people better at self control, or are they just experiencing fewer urges?

Clearly some people have hunger that exceeds their energetic need and others don’t

You see, I think it's a mistake calling it hunger when it's, more often than not, greed. Hunger = need and and greed = because I fancy it.

I'm with @MoltoAgitato. The obesity problem is a behavioural problem.

@OllyBJolly

But we aren’t discussing “the obesity problem” we are discussing whether some people need to restrict what they eat to stay thin.

That’s great for you that you don’t, but you can’t tell those of us that do feel hunger that we aren’t. I am not talking about whether I fancy specific food, I am talking about needing to weigh out quantities of any healthy food such as oats, rice, lentils, vegetables and fruits in order to make sure not to exceed the needed calorie intake. Going to bed hungry because you want to maintain a healthy body weight isn’t a behavioural problem.

@NotAnotherUserNumber The thread is about the internal conversation slim people have. What this thread is saying is that mostly, there isn't one. Slim people don't have to "talk themselves out of" toast two hours after dinner because they don't want toast - they are satisfied with the just eaten meal.

It's a behavioural issue when people feel they constantly have to be eating. Often it's not because it's hunger; it's emotional, it's habit, it's because tempting food is there. Advertisers tell people they're worth it, and Krispy Kreme and Mr Pretzel waft out enticing aromas. We have fallen into behaviours that sees eating as an activity that happens all day, every day. We have normalised the behaviour of constant eating.

@OllyBJolly

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I, and others here, have answered the OP to say that we maintain our thinness by not eating when we are hungry.

You can claim I am wrong about my own feelings, deluded or have a “behavioural problem”, but that wasn’t what @whatisheupto was asking. The question was do people daily ignore hunger pains and restrict their food intake in order to stay thin and the answer for me and others on this thread is yes.

The fact that you and @MoltoAgitato can maintain your weight without feeling hunger doesn’t negate my experience, it just shows that people are different.

I think some people feel hunger and feel they HAVE to eat. I've seen this in my DH who's slightly overweight. The moment he feels the mildest pangs of hunger he seems to panic. It's almost like he thinks he'll pass out if he doesn't eat immediately so he'll grab some crisps, a few biscuits, a handful of nuts. This happens several times a day so it's easy to see how the weight piles on. I used to be the same but I've been doing intermittent fasting and it's made me realise it's OK to feel hungry! 99% of the time the feelings of hunger disappear pretty quickly and you realise you weren't actually in desperate need of food. I've also noticed how some of my overweight friends and family are like DH when it comes to hunger "oh God, I'm starving. I need to eat. I have low blood sugar" etc. I really think that if you feel a bit hungry (but have eaten well earlier) you should just wait 40 minutes or so, have a cup of tea, do something to distract yourself and you'll see the hunger goes away! I sometimes wonder if one of the main differences between fat and thin people is that thin people can tolerate hunger and they know its a temporary feeling.

I think I accidentally started doing intermittent fasting before it was a thing when I was a junior Dr.
It was usually so busy that we rarely had time to go for a pee let alone eat so I almost never ate on shifts apart from maybe grabbing a chocolate off a nursing station ( If there was a decent one left).
I think it's trained me into ignoring hunger. I very rarely bother with lunch and I don't start to get properly hungry until past 6pm. Even then I often think that I feel tired or not able to concentrate or even sick before I realise it's probably hunger.
It was never a conscious decision about weight control though more just far too lazy to bring packed lunch and no decent shops available near work.

Surely everyone experiences hunger? It’s a choice as to what you do next - accept that it’s only 45 mins to lunch, or have an apple, a small bag of popcorn or eat half a block of cheddar.

I’m slim (size 6) and don’t restrict my eating. I’m just young, active and short so my metabolism is fast enough to put up with whatever I eat. I certainly don’t starve myself

@MoltoAgitato I know I experience hunger and deliberate choose to restrict and not eat anyway to maintain a lower weight. This is my point. It sounds like you are now agreeing that you do to (and thought everyone did?).

Others on this thread have said their experience is different and that they feel no inclination to eat more and can eat whenever they are hungry and others such as @OllyBJolly have specifically disagreed with my saying my hunger exceeds my energetic need and claimed this isn’t hunger I feel and said that other slim people don’t feel hungry after a meal.

Clearly there are several different experiences here and we are not all the same in this regard.

Hunger is controlled by factors such as ghrelin, which in turn are controlled by genetic, epigenetic and other biological differences such as gut mircobiota, so not everyone will feel it at the same level.

This is why you and I may be hungry but choose not to eat to stay slim, someone else may be hungry and choose to eat and gain weight and others don’t feel hungry so don’t have to think about it.

I drink some water or make a cup of herbal tea, when I find myself looking into cupboards, I also put nuts in with with the chocolate stash so on my her the dark chocolate is mine the nuts are mine, but the chocolate is for the kids!

But if I do cave in the evenings it's porridge, with some berries and a small portion, that's so good for you and filling, so much better than toast and you can add a blob of jam!

God....Whoever said about “food being a hobby... “has cracked it for me

Gosh, yes, eating is a hobby at the moment
Time for a new one!!

I've recently read Gary Taubes "Why we get fat" after being recommended it on the low carb boot camp threads. It's shifted my mindset and for me (sugar addict) I eat if I want to but not sugar or carbs. Once I have one biscuit I want 10, so it's much more peaceful to have none.

I'm 52, size 10. We eat dinner at 7.30 and 90% of the time I then have a soya chocolate dessert pot as my dessert, then I'm done. If I fancy something later, I remind myself that I have already finished eating for the day. DH will have a chocolate bar and often some crackers about 10pm and that doesn't tempt me. The kitchen is closed by 8.30 for me.

I have a drink first, water/SF Cordial initially then a milkier drink eg decaf coffee or hot chocolate.

Usually does the job, although I also move a lot. Walking min 5 miles a day, yoga, swimming in the sea, And so on

@NotAnotherUserNumber hunger is controlled in part by gherkin but the genetic variance is responsible for a very small effect between people. It’s not going to make the difference between someone having a meal and not feeling hungry until the next day, and someone feeling hungry an hour later.

I’d also put money on people feeling hungry an hour later sitting around watching telly or something after their meal. I doubt they would notice it if they were busy out and about or doing things.

Eating what you like is also a bit of a red herring. If your environment and food culture means that you’ll happily snack on a punnet of cherry tomatoes, or that a biscuit is a single rich tea finger and not a family size pack of bakery cookies, then you’ll be one of the slim people on here going, yes, I do indeed eat what I like. If your food culture and environment is all about lattes with 250 calories and a slice of cake for elevenses then you’ll be one of the people feeling heavily restricted in order to lose or maintain weight.

DYAC! Ghrelin, not gherkin! But perhaps appropriate

What I am trying to say is that you can’t blame genetics for being fat. It would account for variation within the normal BMI range, but absolutely not make the difference between a healthy weight and obesity.

I need to take on board some of this, particularly the dealing with being hungry thing. Need to work harder at distracting myself. The problem is that I get hangry and feel as if I'm going to go crazy if I dont eat. That said, I have really recognised myself eating for the sake of it recently and not necessarily enjoying what I eat that much (been a bit stressed, have just moved house), so really need to change my focus/mindset

I've just turned 40 (woohoo) but have always in the past been 'naturally' slim-ish (very much so in my teens and 20s). I gained a healthy amount of weight in pregnancy, and lost it quickly breastfeeding, but have noticed it slowly creeping up in lockdown, mostly because I was ill with covid-19 in late March and even now I'm not walking my normal 5 miles each day nothing to do with vegan ice cream newly being stocked at the nearby shop. I've also noticed a bad habit in lockdown of not wanting my toddler's uneaten food to go to waste, and this is adding up over time! I'm still in healthy range, size 10 but could do with losing half a stone or so. I do eat when I'm hungry but also drink loads of water every day (often 4 litres plus coffee/tea etc.) and I've heard most people are low level dehydrated a lot, which can make you think you're hungry when you're actually thirsty.

Most of my family, apart from my twin, are overweight/obese so I do think there is a small genetic predisposition, but I think also never having been overweight means our bodies react differently to food. We also seem to move/fidget more than our heavier family members. This article is interesting I think:

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201808/what-s-your-fat-cell-number

@MoltoAgitato You are still missing my point. I am not blaming genetics for being fat. I am not fat and never have been.

My typical weight is around 8 to 8 and a half stone, although I weigh closer to 9 at the moment due to gaining weight when I had covid and just ate to hunger cues rather than restricting. I am not talking about having lattes and cake or a family sized pack of cookies. I am talking about eating cauliflower rice while my husband eats basmati at dinner to lower my calorie intake and then wanting some rice cakes later on, but not allowing myself to eat them.

Some of us just feel hungry all the time and some people clearly don’t (as evidenced by this thread). It is a simple fact that this is based on genetic factors such as MC4R variants.

The point is that as this thread has shown, some slim people such as myself have to have a frequent conversation in their head about restriction and some slim people don’t.

What else explains the fact that some people can eat like pigs and not exercise and remain super skinny, other than genetics (and other under-explored factors like gut biome)?

All sorts of chemical and biological processes in the body which can be genetic or environmental. The key seems to be insulin and how your body regulates/responds to it.

Sometimes I have a glass of water as I'm terrible for not drinking enough and sometimes my hunger is actually thirst. If I am hungry after dinner I may have a slice of toast or some fruit, but I only put about a teaspoon of butter on it (I watched in horror at how much DH puts on it when he makes it for me!) I agree with PP if I'm still hungry I probably didn't have a big enough dinner. Going vegan has made a difference with how little snacking I do now as most biscuits and chocolates are not vegan friendly!

What else explains the fact that some people can eat like pigs and not exercise and remain super skinny, other than genetics (and other under-explored factors like gut biome)?

The explanation is generally that people who are slim over-estimate whereas people who are overweight underestimate what they eat. Lots of external factors such as the diet industry, the fast food sector, cash rich time poor society, lack of knowledge of nutrition....but basically it's because people who are slim eat match their fuel intake with their energy output

What else explains the rise in obesity in general? It can't be genetic mutation in 20 years.

people who are slim over-estimate

I already mentioned that. But that clearly doesn’t explain the huge variations. I eat curry and croissants most days and have 32ins hips. There’s no way that can be explained adequately except through genetic or other non-dietary factors.

What else explains the rise in obesity in general?
Epigenetics. Certain chemicals in food and in the water supply affecting brain chemistry, metabolism, and gut biome. The rise of antibiotics and over-cleaning and how that affects gut biomes. The rise in allergies from environmental factors. The rise in certain medications. The photo of the mice upthread shows how exposure to certain things in infancy causes life-long changes which can cause obesity.