A secret binge eater

[hurried]

I am seeking, rather than offering advice. I have to be honest, if I could I would eat all day, and I will often have large amounts of carbs in one sitting. I put my toddler in the car today to drive myself us to a local shop to buy carbs- I have nothing against carbs, I haven't been trying to avoid them, I just started on my child's breakfast biscuits this morning and went into a frenzy, finishing off the whole pack. I was stuffing them as soon as I brought them. I looked in the mirror and saw my child watching me. I felt so ashamed and thought I would be so embarrassed if anyone saw me.

Today was a terrible day. My son has had chicken pox and both been in all week and suddenly it got to me. I can't talk to my GP about this, and I don't have friends that wouldn't judge me for this. So I am seeking support here x

Sleep I tried some of the things you suggested

I did try the dancing around the room with my LO, and yes we enjoyed it :-)

I have been going to a Tai Chi class as I mentioned, and it's odd but when I am there I sometimes will look down and think how amazing all our bodies are and I actually stop and think about why on earth I want to abuse myself albeit, by eating too much, not being mindful, being hard on myself as, as corny as it sounds, but I look at my body as a gift almost (I know I sound crackers). Usually, following a class, I feel calm and think of food as nourishment. Today I felt quite tired, went to a class, had a lovely time, went to pick up my LO from nursery, had a beautiful lunch, smoked salmon, with olive oil and salad (leftovers from the weekend). However, we have lots of cakes from the local butcher's farm shop here and chocolatey cereals (Kraves... for guests that stayed and requested them for their children). I decided at 3pm my LO and I would go out and have a piece of one of the cakes (take it with us) and have a coffee/drink later and mindfully eat it. I was looking forward to it. I was tidying the kitchen and really impulsively ate a bit of one of the cakes (even thought I had been saying for the past few hours I would have one at 3pm and enjoy it) and then I was like a woman possessed, I wanted everything, the cereal (yet I had been fine before and been looking forward to having one of the cakes later). I have a childlike compulsion and absolutely no willpower so it seems. Reading over one of your points Sleep, I do think there is some kind of response to those kind of foods that sends me on a high, I am a fool though, each time I think, this time it will be different. I can just go for a few hours with cakes just there, not thinking about them, I just walked into the kitchen, doing some work and saw the carrot cake with it''s butter icing and thought I'd just have a little bit- who am I kidding! I can't do it. It may work for some people and maybe I'll be fine in the future, but when I am home alone during the day I have to be realistic, it's likely at some point I will fancy the cakes/cereal!! I enjoyed lunch though, perhaps I should have made it a bit bigger so I was more full. I could have thrown the cakes away and I should have done, but my husband lovingly brought them for me and guests at the weekend, and I felt guilty to just throw food away.

Sleep you are right I'm not patient. I expect to be completely cured, and there are moments of the day I am.... I am noticing after lunch is a frequent time for bingeing, and maybe I'm repeating myself, but I need to make sure I'm physically unable to do it, I eat, eat with others at lunchtime, or go for a walk straight away afterwards. I'm fine if I have lunch out oddly, I seem to only ever binge when home alone... or int he car like OP. I know that's not so much because I'm embarrassed but because I can then, I don't need to be mindful. I can be feeling stressed and it provides calm at those points, whereas if I'm out and about, it's not so easy. I have to be keeping an eye on my LO or I'm distracted.

Interesting that Milly's fasting link article said that people binged on weekends, I wonder, ok the low calorie diet triggered the impulse to binge, but the fact it was on weekends, was when people had time on their hands. BTW I think lots of people consume a lot more on weekends, alcohol or food, I guess that's obvious. My husband, not a big foodie, can get through a packet of biscuits (and would never classify himself as a binge eater) when working at home alone all day, yet quite often he can come home from work, having been so busy, and not eaten anything (seriously!) all day.

I think Sleep you are right ` holistic approach is what I require but I have to be honest, I just do think there is something in me, if I seem a load of cream cakes cereals, catch me at times, something in me says eat it!!! At this point in time, it's not that it even makes me feel tense, I just can't rely on my own resolve to be sensible. It's really frustrating, I wish I was normal.

Sleep I had planned for a lovely lunch but I didn't stick to your advice today to have a good breakfast, I had some dark choc before I dashed out to drop my son off. Yesterday, I had some dark choc when I woke up but also had fried egg on burgen bread at 10.00 am, I still had a bit of a slump around lunchtime but had a roasted tomato and lentil soup at 2pm (we went out for a walk yesterday am) I then did some cooking and washing in the afternoon and we had guests here. I was eating sensibly until 6pm at which point I was making children their dinner (adults were all eating later) and that's when I started snacking on their food (these kids were eating chocolate cereal, croissants, cake for T (not my LO I hasten to add, although he had four bites of his salmon fishcake before he started wanting their food!!!).

You are right I need to make more passion for life, I think I should be appreciating every moment, but during the day, when I'm looking at the clock and my LO has needs I don't feel extremely passionate. I can be much more mindful in the evening and more enthusiastic about life in the evening too. I haven't worked out why this is.

I mentioned your idea about cooking a lovely meal a few times a week to the OH and it went down very well! i haven't told him about this forum, he probably knows though as I'm often sneaking a look at it. I am cooking Thai green curry tonight. I need some great slow cooker recipes so I can work on the dinner in the afternoon. My husband said whilst I have time on my hands I could walk to town in the afternoon with my Lo and choose a dinner to cook when I get back- killing two birds with one stone. However, it's been bucketing it down with rain. I'll need to get some waterproofs.

I have started adding more fat to my food, as I think I said before, and I have had quite a few comments about my skin recently, I'm not sure if that's because I am a bit calmer (I know I don't sound it). I haven't noticed a difference in my mood yet.

I haven't done the manicure thing yet... I can't really afford to shell out for one at the moment. I haven't done the hair conditioning idea thing yet either, I guess part of me thinks what's the point, I know that sounds very defeatist, so forgive me. I can be defeatist and then quite contradictory with my mindset, I love the idea of caring for myself thorough food or whatever else, I'm not good at doing anything about it.

Another thing that frustrates me, and is completely illogical because I can recognise it, is the way I act when a plan falls thorough. i'm the sharpest tool in the box, but if I see it's raining and I have planned to walk I get thrown off track, does that make sense. I'm with this in other areas of my life too, ie, if my LO is in a terrible mood and I had planned to go shopping or swimming with him,, I won't go as the thought of him kicking up a fuss has tired me before I've even attempted it. I think I have a very defeatist attitude and I'm not resilient, I really wish I could toughen up a bit. I'm just describing my personality faults as I wonder if these contribute to my negative behaviours. I don't know if it's depression or tiredness or just me, but quite often I just feel on my own planet and I think when I feel like this I have to really have a kick up the @@@ to be butt to be more mindful about things.

Going back to MillyMillyme's comments about food restriction during childhood. My mum tells me I drank the whole bottle of penicillin once when I was three, because I loved the sweet taste, apparently, I hid behind the sofa and drank it..... obviously I've always had issues!!!

Did your Mum restrict sweet things with you Hurried?

Hi Millyrules,

She restricted "sweeties and chocolate" she didn't restrict bread or cereals and the latter are what I binge on (I would binge on cakes too/ and do, but we don't have them that often, but I had them as a child as my mum was always baking). Things like Twix, kit kates were restricted and I remember going to a friend's house and being so excited there was free access to these foods, and I overate them.

It may be linked to mum's restriction of some sweet foods, but she said she had to limit some as we would just eat the all.

I also have found I'll even binge on porridge if I'm down these days and my mum tried to force feed me porridge as a child!

I know it sounds a cop out but I can't help but feel part pf this is physiological, maybe I'm deluding myself, I know I have psychological issues with food now of course, but I can't help but feel some of these foods are addictive. I think it helps me to feels that way towards them because I really try to join in and "just have one" and feel enbarrassed that suddenly I'm euphoric of a slice of a cake and then feel I want everything. It's dangerous territory though as I know also completely restricting something isn't healthy as OP noted, as this can result in bingeing on that food too.

The only times in my life that I haven't overeaten were when I was working hard (travelling on the tube - hot and busy, there wasn't time to binge) and when I went on a health kick years ago as I wanted to look my best (VANITY!). x

I don't think it's quite as simple as that Milly - if you read Hurried's post on 15th Oct, she says she was given free access to bread but chocolate and sweets were restricted. Yet now she is more likely to binge on bread than sweets.

Sorry x post!

Hurried I'm going to say some more after kids bedtime and my dinner but (putting aside the fact that your DH and LO eat them too), what do you feel instinctively is the best thing to do with the cereal/cake etc, not have it in the house at all, removing temptation? Do you think that would be easier for you or do you think you would go out in search of it, or replace it with a different food that you do have to hand?

Tumble my question was in response to Hurried devouring the sweet medicine behind the sofa and it turns out that her Mum did restrict sweets. Maybe that's why she was enjoying it so much and in "secret" too. You started young there Hurried lol!.

People definitely have different reactions to carbs especially wheat carbs.
They of course raise your insulin levels which gives you the "high" then drops down below the original stable level that you were before the "wheat carb" then you eat more to get that "happy feeling" that you had originally. Only thing is that usually you don't ever get to that initial "high" again though it doesn't stop you from repeating the action again and again until all the cake is gone.

Hi, just quickly, apologies for my last couple of posts. My messages are usually rushed, although, in my head I have analysed things for hours, I should make sure my replies are more thoughtful! I laughed at my line "I'm the sharpest tool in the box" as you may have guessed, I meant to insert "not" into that sentence! I also don't know why I put I haven't noticed a change in mood, I think I have been calmer. I can't remember why I wrote that but, obviously, I have felt a little calmer.

There are lots of other typos- sorry! I will try to be better in future :-)

Sleep I'm not sure what the best way is to go, but when I reflect, the times I have not binged in the past have been having completely removed from food ie working, just doing something else - so distracted, or been highly motivated because of an event - not slimming as such, just not wanting to look feel awful and I guess being excited by an event. This may seem random reflections, but I try to think what worked before, by "worked" I don't mean dieting (alright, I think op pointed out that sometimes that resulted in weight loss,
But it wasn't the goal).

I digress...!

Yes I definitely started young lol! I hang my head in shame. I would blame the sweet restriction, and maybe that why I drank the sweet penicillin (which, btw, I wish they would sweeten these days - getting my son to take it is hard!) but these days my binge foods aren't restricted ones. We weren't allowed many sweets, and I hate sweets now. My mum was always baking, and like another poster, I used to lick the icing off but we weren't restricted as such.

We were also always allowed pudding but we had to have a savour course first. I remember ring very manipulative. I had school dinners and I remember the staff being worried as I was so slim an I realised if I didn't choose much first course (or said I didn't like the first course (even if I did) I used to get second or third helpings of dessert lol). I am sure my childhood has had an influence but I dot think I can blame my folks, we had home cooked healthy meals with desserts. I just think I was one of the kids that loved food, whereas my siblings do but haven't ended up bingers, as I said before.

A mistake I think my parents did make, was if I was a good girl I got sweets/ chocolate. I know that doesn't make for a healthy relationship with food, although that hasn't negatively affected my siblings. I do try to not reward my son with food.

Absolutely millyrules with regard to the high off carbs. It just do something!

Hi Hurried. I think if you know you are going to be tempted by cakes as in the situation you describe, simply because the cake is there in front of you and it is just too easy to start eating (lots of us would be the same by the way), then it would be better if, in a moment of being strong, you gave them to DH to take into work perhaps? And bin the sugary cereal. You need to get DH to understand and support you with this.

I think when the article talks about people on 5:2 'bingeing' it is not necessarily the way you would experience a binge...it is just overeating and I think the deprivation people go through when fasting gives them a sense of having 'earnt' or deserving more food on the other days, always a risk (and often a fatal error ) with restrictive diets . Re your DH eating an entire pack of biscuits - to me that is just mindless (over)eating, again not a binge but oh so easy to fall prey to, for any of us.

I think Hurried, that you need to try and let go of the idea of being 'cured'. Bingeing is not an illness, you don't need fixing . It is a habit and a coping mechanism. Like an addiction, you may never be completely 'free' of it but you can aim to live happily without needing it - does that make sense?

I would love to counsel and coach you properly Hurried, there is so much more I would love to know about you and your life. For Milly the cause of her compulsive eating appears much more obvious and straightforward - her history with her mum points the way. With you its more complicated than that. But a compulsion is there to tell you something about yourself, to help you identify and change something...you have identified some things that help and these are rooted in taking care of yourself, finding ways to improve your self esteem and taking some time just to be you, rather than caring for everyone else. These are great steps to keep working on - baby steps every day. Please take another look at that 'great things about me' list and try and add to it each day - and at the same time try and halt that negative voice in your head that constantly puts you down? Every day this week - let us know how you are getting on.

Hi Sleep, thank you again for your thoughtful reply. You wrote some really lovely things (assumptions) about me in a post, I'm not sure they were all true however, but I did appreciate the compliments.

I think you are right to point out it's complex. I am looking for a quick, simple answer. Or a list of instructions that would instantly alleviate any Erm, negative behaviours, coping mechanisms. I will work on the list but a bit stick!

Hurried I think also that you need to accept yourself the way you are not just with the bingeing but in every other area of your life. Easier said than done but something we all need to work towards....excepting ourselves!!! .....in doing that you can start to love yourself just as you are. Hating ourselves for the things we perceive as bad or as a weakness just causes a vicious circle. Excepting ourselves lets go of everything.

Ivanacake, I have just read your message. I'm so sorry you are upset. I don't think children necessarily do everything their parents do. It sounds like you are a very loving mum to care so much.

My son isn't that into food- he would much rather be playing!, like his dad, bizarrely...

I look to outside advice with regards to my son, I looked up littlepeople's plates and all the research I could find, so I knew I had a logical approach. He has seen me drive to somewhere to get food, I felt HUGE guilt, but to him I think it looked like I was just going for a food shop.

As you can see from my posts I ramble, and I have been given some fantastic constructive advice and support. Please feel free to ask any questions I'm always here if you just want someone else to chat to. I do sympathise, bug hugs xxx

You're probably right Millyrules, I think I probably have this image of this "normal" perfect person... that I would like to be... yet I do think I am going to have to make some proactive changes. Thank you for all your support

i lost this thread off threads i'm on - it sounds like you're doing really well hurried

i am having therapy for ED (bulimic and anorexic behaviours - I'm afraid I have to hide the 5:2 threads because people talk about the high they feel when fasting and i find the urge overwhelming...)

the therapist has suggested that at some point the disordered behaviour 'worked' for me. it wasn't like i woke up one day and decided i was going to give myself an eating disorder. it fulfilled some sort of need in a shortcut sort of way - maybe i needed comfort, consolation (binge eating), to feel like i was perfect, to feel a sense of 'achievement' (starving) etc, it could be a mixture of things at different times or all at once. either way, it provided what i needed at the time.

of course, longterm it doesn't work because actually you are not really getting what you need, just a temporary patch, but you keep taking the shortcut because it is what you have learnt. and the longer (healthier behaviour) route may be more painful, uncomfortable (physically and mentally), perhaps forcing you to deal with things you have consciously or unconsciously avoided etc

won't apply to everyone of course, but it makes sense for me

I think that probably applies to most people with ED Willie, it's a coping mechanism, not about the food itself (though the high you get from certain foods, or even from not eating in some cases) can increase the addiction to it.

Hurried, you have some idea of being a 'perfect', 'normal' person...apart from not bingeing, what is the life of the 'perfect/normal' version of you like in your mind's eye?

yes, the idea of 'perfection' is a massive thing for me

also (sorry if i'm repeating someone else here), food is bloody everywhere and it's available 24 bloody 7, even in quite rural areas. we are animals and in many ways programmed to eat when food is available. eating naturally gives us positive feedback physiologically because we need it to live. so it's not surprising that we seek that positive feedback in greater quantities and at greater frequency, and food is so very AVAILABLE in our society

Willie you are spot on. Any addiction is a coping mechanism and something we need at the time to get us through a difficult patch and as it gets us through the hard times we then continually seek out this addiction to get the same results again and again. Accepting it for what it is, a way of coping that you need for whatever reason is the best way to be with it. Getting therapy is helpful to try and work out your feelings that are associated with it. It worked for me as it helped me to realise how crap my childhood had been. Until I had therapy I was totally unaware of my feelings with regard to growing up. It was like a revelation when things were uncovered. You might find that you don't just have one way of dealing with stress (bingeing) but you may have others too. With help it can become easier to talk yourself through a binge or starve or any addiction to be honest.
Quite often a total life change will almost get rid of it overnight. Im guessing that it sort of blasts through your normal way of doing things. Maybe this is why a lot of you ladies find distraction the best way of dealing with it. Exercise too. You can grasp why you do this and have lightbulb moments and then minutes later can find yourself back to your coping methods. If you cant get therapy then get good boods (read reviews) and work on yourself. Do affirmations, have workbooks to write down what you do each day. Read read read but for now just accept yourself. Interestingly, I can also get very very high from not eating but too high and I crash big time and then am in bed for 24 hours with a horrible migraine so I avoid it. The 5:2 will bring on a headache in me.
Any diet will cause disorded eating in most people. The diet doesn't work for long and then they regain the weight and then try and new diet. Fifty years go by and you are still in the same boat or have totally given up.
Overcoming Overeating book (jane Hirschman) will help you to be more at ease areound food and be easy on yourself to understand why and how to deal with your issue. Of course there are many other books that will help too.

Really quickly, Willywagger the words from your therapist's observations make sense. The madness of knowing you are doing something destructive- (well, it's only food), but eating until you feel sick, your stomach is painful and having brain fog for the rest of the day doesn't make sense, but it is not like I'm eating and crying, it provides an absolute high at the time, like your therapist got it spot on, it's a short cut to a temporary solution. It's easy, it's comfortable and accessible. I have felt euphoric off carbs (the only other feeling I can compare it too is a long run or a very long walk, unfortunately I should have stuck to Sleep's advice about not diving into sport - I have hurt my knees at the moment). The problem is it stops when you stop eating, or a few hours afterwards, so one keeps on going.

I did wonder if someone said that I had to give up food it would all be given in a pill, how I would feel. After a binge it feels like a great idea, but the first thing in the morning, the thought of facing a day without food terrifies me! I did one day make a healthy casserole for my son and myself, we had milk and yogurts in the fridge (for my son, and jaffa cakes but only my non binge foods in the house- only a small bit of cake for my son and I to share) my husband had to take my car to work and his car was at the garage. My son went to nursery and I actually found myself looking for binge food and then crying, realising afterwards that I was actually frustrated and upset about something I hadn't realised had upset me. I have learnt to hide away and not face things. For sure. I think I discovered this from a really , really early age. Millyrules, I'm so glad therapy helped you. I can' imagine being as strong as you, I don't think anything has ever "snapped" me out of a binge once I've set my mind don going... apart from a death in the family or my LO needing something. Millyrules you are so right, you can have that "lightbulb" moment and then completely contradict yourself or I am always shocked at my own foolishness, I make the same mistake again and again.

Williwagger, you are so right, food is everywhere, although I find, if I'm with my son, out in a town, I am actually quite sensible, i go somewhere with him and we share a sandwich or whatever and it can all be very civilised, but like you say it's hard to get away from food. It is everywhere and also looking after a husband, his children, their friends and my own LO revolves around me looking after them all with food, if I then go to town it's to go food shopping.

Sleep I think the perfect person copes well, is resilient. I think they look after themselves and others well. I'm quite spoilt I think, I wish I felt more happiness and pleasure giving to others...I'm often grumpy, I wish I was happier and smilier and I think the perfect person has energy, is friendly, outgoing, get up and go, gets up after they have been knocked down (I feel like breaking into song here). I think the perfect person will be healthy and respect their body, will be intelligent, thoughtful, patient, kind, athletic.... I think the main perfect person is honest and open. Oh and looks nice too :-) I don't expect all these things in others by the way, but that's how I would like to be.

hurried, your final paragraph resonates with me completely. that is absolutely how i feel - 'i should be more robust and resilient' is a constant thought for me (especially as i had a perfectly decent upbringing)

i don't know whether this is relevant, but i was talking to a friend about some pain i was having - period-like cramps that aren't associated with my period or ovulation etc. it was getting me down a bit because it was uncomfortable and difficult to sleep. and i said something like 'but that's what women have to put up with i suppose', and she said 'why? why should you have to endure pain because you're a woman?' and i was that as a self-declared feminist i had the ingrained belief that it is normal for women to feel and endure pain and carry on as normal, uncomplaining, resilient

Hurried what do you think would happen if you ALWAYS had your binge foods in your cupboard. Never ran out of them and can eat them whenever you want and in any quantity day after day after day. Would they eventually lose their hold on you ?

Milly just as an aside...have you thought about becoming a counsellor yourself? I think you'd be amazing.

Hurried - your name is so apt the more I get to know you by the way ! Do you feel that you can't be like that 'perfect you' until you stop the bingeing? I think too many of us focus on 'when I get down to x weight/size, everything will be wonderful' and its really upside down. Be, or try to be the person you would like to be - confident, happy, generous, healthy, athletic - and the body you accept and even love (even if it isn't the exact size or shape you imagined it) should follow as a result of that. Losing weight or stopping an unwanted compulsion or habit won't automatically change much else in our lives ....I said something in an earlier post about living as if we were in our 'perfect' life now in order to 'fake it to make it'. If that feels too much of a stretch then think about the small steps you can make NOW towards getting some of those things you want. So exercising regularly is what that athletic you does, regularly making an effort to look nice is something you can do...just concentrate on one or two things, making them a habit, then try one more.

I think maybe you have a different idea about being selfish to how others may consider it too...it doesn't sound like you have much in your life that is selfish at all . It's definitely a female thing, feeling guilty about having money, time, things to themselves when they have a family depending on them. Without wanting to generalise too much, its not often something that occurs to a man - eg. your DH spending days away working then coming home to watch sport most of the weekend. I'm honestly not criticising that but I suspect that if you had been away you wouldn't have felt comfortable watching hours of Downton for example . Everyone needs something for themself. Do you think you would be happier working?How old is your LO?

I also meant to say, don't beat yourself up about binning plans with DC at the last minute because they are tired/miserable/its raining. Why would it make sense to force you both to endure something you won't enjoy ? Young kids can be unpredictable, trying to just go with the flow and take the relaxed/easy option is usually best .