Low Carb Bootcamp - Week 13, a Baker's Dozen

[BIWItheBold]

... low carb baked goods, of course!

Welcome everyone and good luck for the forthcoming week.

As before, here are the rules for Bootcamp and Bootcamp Light, and the list of allowed veg:

The Carnivore Rules

1.Eat three, proper meals a day.
You must eat breakfast. It doesn?t have to be a lot, but you must have something. For the rest of the day, if you?re eating enough food and you are in ketosis then you shouldn?t be hungry. But if you are hungry, eat something. (Hard boiled eggs make a great snack)

2.Avoid processed food
Focus on pure, natural protein as the basis for your meals ? meat/fish/eggs. Things like sausages, ham, bacon, pre-prepared burgers etc should be avoided as much as possible. You can have them, but just not every day. Avoid foods marketed as low carb, e.g. Atkins Daybreak bars.

3.Eat lots of fat.
Eating fat helps you to burn fat. Honestly! Fry in butter, add butter to vegetables, eat salad with a home-made vinaigrette dressing (not made with balsamic vinegar though, as this is too sweet), add mayonnaise where you can (just check the carb count on your mayo first). Eat fattier cuts of meat ? e.g. pork belly, roast chicken with the skin on and/or eat the fat off your lamb chops. Absolutely no low fat/light foods of any kind!

4.Make sure you are eating vegetables and salads with your food ?
This is where your carbs should come from, and this is non-negotiable. But choose only those vegetables that are on the allowed list. You don?t have to weigh/count carbs ? this is one of the great joys of this WOE (way of eating), but if you?re new to low carbing it can be helpful to weigh your portions of veg in the early days, just so that you know how many carbs are in the sort of portions that you like to eat

*5.Be careful about dairy (apart from butter, which is unlimited). It can impede weight loss for some people. If you are still drinking tea/coffee with milk or cream, try to restrict yourself to max 2 cups per day. You may eat cheese, but don't overdo it. Full fat yoghurt is the best way to include dairy in your diet - but beware, it does contain carbs. Total Full Fat is the best.

6.You must drink a minimum of 2 litres of water per day.
The more weight you have to lose, the more water you should drink

7.No alcohol
If you really can't do this - at least try and restrict it to the weekend. Vodka with soda is the best thing to drink. Or Champagne, red wine or dry white wine.

8.No fruit
Really. Seriously. Honestly. None at all. Zilch. Nada.

9.No nuts/seeds
Whilst these are really good to snack on later - it can be too easy to start snacking on these - and before you know it, all your carbs have gone on nuts. Seriously - in bootcamp - don't do it to yourself.

10.No sugar or artificial sweeteners

Allowed veg

Don?t eat any veg unless it?s on this list, and try and focus on eating those that are under 3g carbs per 100g:

Veg (raw)Carbs per 100g
Mushrooms0.4
Watercress0.4
Spinach0.8
Celery0.9
Broccoli1.1
Asparagus 1.4
Cucumber1.5
Lettuce1.7
Fennel1.8
Courgettes1.8
Cauliflower1.9
Avocado flesh1.9
Turnip2
Pumpkin2.2
Runner beans2.3
Swede2.3
Celeriac2.3
Bean sprouts2.5
Green pepper2.6
Baby sweetcorn2.7
Aubergine2.8
Leeks2.9
Okra3
Tomato3.1
Mangetout3.3
Shallots3.3
Brussels sprouts3.5
French beans4.7
Cabbage5
Yellow pepper5.3
Carrots6
Orange or red pepper6.4
Ginger (peeled)7.2
Butternut squash7.5
Onions7.9

Veggie Rules

Only slightly adapted from BIWI's but best to take notice of the changes if you're vegetarian.

1.Eat three, proper meals a day.
You must eat breakfast. It doesn?t have to be a lot, but you must have something. For the rest of the day, if you?re eating enough food and you are in ketosis then you shouldn?t be hungry. But if you are hungry, eat something. (Hard boiled eggs make a great snack)

2.Avoid processed food
Focus on pure, natural ingredients as the basis for your meals. Vegetarian Sausages and Burgers are ok in small quantities, but check the carb count as some can be very high. Avoid foods marketed as 'Low Carb' such as Atkins Daybreak Bars, etc.

3.Eat lots of fat.
Eating fat helps you to burn fat. Honestly! Fry in butter, add butter to vegetables, eat salad with a home-made vinaigrette dressing (not made with balsamic vinegar though, as this is too sweet), add mayonnaise where you can (just check the carb count on your mayo first). Absolutely no low fat/light foods of any kind!

4.Make sure you are eating plenty of vegetables and salads with your food ?
This is where most of your carbs should come from, and this is non-negotiable. But choose only those vegetables that are on the allowed list. You don?t have to weigh/count carbs ? this is one of the great joys of this WOE (way of eating), but if you?re new to low carbing it can be helpful to weigh your portions of veg in the early days, just so that you know how many carbs are in the sort of portions that you like to eat

5.Be careful about dairy (apart from butter, which is unlimited). It can impede weight loss for some people. If you are still drinking tea/coffee with milk or cream, try to restrict yourself to max 2 cups per day. You may eat cheese, but don't overdo it. Full fat yoghurt is the best way to include dairy in your diet - but beware, it does contain carbs. Total Full Fat is the best.

6.You must drink a minimum of 2 litres of water per day.
The more weight you have to lose, the more water you should drink

7.No alcohol
If you really can't do this - at least try and restrict it to the weekend. Vodka with soda is the best thing to drink. Or Champagne, red wine or dry white wine.

8.No fruit
Really. Seriously. Honestly. None at all. Zilch. Nada.

9.Beware of Nuts and Seeds.
Nuts are a very good way to include more fat and protein in your diet, however some are very high carb (e.g. Cashews). Stick to small amounts of Almonds, Brazil Nuts, Dried Coconut, Walnuts, Seeds and Peanut Butter, but check the ingredients, many supermarket brands have sugar added.

10.No sugar or artificial sweeteners

And here are the rules for Bootcamp Light:

1. Eat three, proper meals a day

You must eat breakfast. It doesn?t have to be a lot, but you must have something. For the rest of the day, if you?re eating enough food and you are in ketosis then you shouldn?t be hungry. But if you are hungry, eat something. (Hard boiled eggs make a great snack)

1. Avoid processed food

Focus on pure, natural protein as the basis for your meals ? meat/fish/eggs. You may include processed meats like bacon or (low carb) sausages, smoked salmon, smoked mackerel, gammon - but please don?t have these at every meal or every day. As well as being highly processed they often contain undesirable ingredients, can add unnecessary extra carbs into your diet, and often include sugar.

1. Eat lots of fat

Eating fat helps you to burn fat. Honestly! It will also keep you feeling fuller for longer. Fry in butter, add butter to vegetables, eat salad with a home-made vinaigrette dressing (not made with balsamic vinegar though, as this is too sweet), add mayonnaise where you can (just check the carb count on your mayo first). Eat fattier cuts of meat ? e.g. pork belly, roast chicken with the skin on and/or eat the fat off your lamb chops. Absolutely no low fat/light foods of any kind!

1. Make sure you are eating vegetables and salads with your food

This is where the bulk of your carbs should come from, and this is non-negotiable. But choose only those vegetables that are on the allowed list. You don?t have to weigh/count carbs ? this is one of the great joys of this WOE (way of eating), but if you?re new to low carbing it can be helpful to weigh your portions of veg in the early days, just so that you know how many carbs are in the sort of portions that you like to eat.

Beware that some of the veg on the allowed list can be surprisingly high in carbs once you make up a portion of it ? this is because they are denser, and therefore you tend to use more ? compare, for example, 100g of onion with 100g lettuce! Keep your focus on those veg which contain 3g carbs per 100g and use these as the focus of your meals. Use those over 3g per 100g sparingly.

1. You may eat some dairy

You should aim to include plenty of butter on this WOE. Fry with it and add it to your vegetables. And if you know that dairy doesn?t impede your weight loss you may eat cheese, but don't overdo it. Full fat yoghurt is the best way to include dairy in your diet - but beware, it does contain carbs. Total Full Fat is the best.

If you?ve been cutting out tea/coffee, you can re-introduce this ? but just be careful how much milk you end up drinking. You can end up adding a lot of extra carbs this way.

1. You must drink a minimum of 2 litres of water per day

Even if you?re drinking more tea/coffee than in Bootcamp, this is still a non-negotiable part of this WOE. And the more weight you have to lose, the more water you should drink. Water helps to flush out the ketones that your body will product ? so flushing out the fat.

1. You may drink some alcohol

But restrict this to once or twice a week max. Vodka with soda is the best thing to drink. Or Champagne, red wine or dry white wine. Absolutely no beer/lager, cider, liqueurs, cocktails or full sugar mixers. You can drink spirits with artificial sweeteners, but bear in mind that we are attempting to avoid all things artificial!

Alcohol is the easiest source of fuel for your body, and it will use this over and above anything else that is available to it. Therefore, even if you?re following the diet absolutely to the letter, including alcohol can prevent weight loss.

1. You may eat some fruit

Strawberries, raspberries, blackberries and rhubarb are all fine. But please ? only once a day at the very most, and keep an eye on your portion sizes. Just for information ? these are the carb counts:

Rhubarb ? 0.8g carbs per 100g (but don?t forget you will need to sweeten this ? and not with sugar!)
Blackberries ? 4.4g carbs per 100g
Raspberries ? 4.6g carbs per 100g
Strawberries ? 6g carbs per 100g
Blueberries - 6.4g carbs per 100g (although this is a bit controversial - I have had differing carb counts from various sources - some saying as much as 12g carbs per 100g)

1. You may eat some nuts/seeds

Nuts/seeds can make a good snack. BUT it is incredibly easy to overdo it, and you can end up eating your bodyweight in carbs. Also, if you prefer salted nuts, it is very easy to eat too much salt via nuts/seeds. As an occasional snack they are great. As well as being bad for you, too much salt can result in fluid retention - which will mean a higher weight on the scales.

Macadamias are not only luscious, but they are very low in carbs. Sainsbury?s sell little bags of roasted, salted Macadamias that work out at around 4g per bag.

Here are some carb counts ? BUT ? check the back of your packets as I don?t know if these are for raw or roasted nuts:

Pistachios 4.6g carbs per 100g
Macadamias 4.8g carbs per 100g
Pecans 5.8g carbs per 100g
Almonds 6.9g carbs per 100g
Peanuts 7.1 g carbs per 100g
Cashews 18.1g carbs per 100g

10. Avoid artificial sweeteners The aim of Bootcamp was to help reduce the stranglehold that sugar has on us ? and to curb your sweet tooth. But it does make some things difficult, e.g. desserts at a dinner party, and it is undeniable that it can be enjoyable ? occasionally ? to eat something sweet. However, restrict such goodies. For some people, artificial sweeteners can impede weight loss.

QS thanks for that - I have ordered some, but the tablet version. Will see if they make a difference.

I'm curious - re. water retention, is it possible to be retaining water when you are consistently drinking the amount of water that I am? (i.e., lots)!

Guys, is coconut milk in thai green curry ok? Doing bootcamp....also the green curry paste. In cinema so can't check box but if it's under 4g per hundred is that ok? Thx

Nope, QS - urine test came back normal. But I'm intrigued as to what you mean about a condition which prevents me from having low electrolytes - can you expand?

Do you think I've been irresponsible?

Here's a list of the symptoms of low potassium. Excessive thirst and water retention are both on there - high blood pressure is also on there so maybe BIWI would be wise to listen to my advice about electrolytes. Whether or not you retain water has more to do with the amounts of the various electrolytes than how much water you are drinking. If you have low sodium you can be dehydrated and drinking lots of water will make it worse because you will be losing even more sodium every time you go to the loo and it's the same if you're retaining water because of low potassium.

It would explain why you've been following this diet for so long and not realised that replacing electrolytes is essential, although low potassium could be causing your high blood pressure.

Low potassium can be really serious:

"Cardiovascular Effects
Low potassium levels can have detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system, including slow heartbeat and pulse, heart muscle damage, heart attacks, and high blood pressure. Having low potassium may double the risk of stroke and is involved in the development of atherosclerosis and hypertension."

You've put yourself in the situation where everyone thinks you are an expert and a lot of people blindly follow your advice even though it is potentially dangerous. It's a well known fact that you have to be careful about getting enough electrolytes on a low carb diet but you've never mentioned it. Instead I have to be a broken record every time someone comes on here listing symptoms of low potassium - have you not noticed the number of times that I've told people to start using electrolyte powder or putting lo-salt on their food and they've come back and said they feel a lot better? Go through the threads - there are some where I've had to tell half a dozen different posters to up their potassium and actually half the time you are giving them different advice which just confuses the matter - sometimes you're even telling them to drink more water which is probably the last thing they should do.

Full fat coconut milk is fine! Your Thai paste depends on the carb count. Under 4g per 100g seems fine to me.

Potassium is found in meat, salmon, cod, dairy products and veg. I'm eating a lot of those things - will I still be low in potassium?

Queen Stromba to be fair, BIWI has countless times stated in a disclaimer that she's not an expert etc. etc.
Thanks for the potassium info!

JellyBelly my curiosity is piqued - sounds like you are eating curry in a cinema?????????

Wow! Have you got out of bed the wrong side today, QS?

Thank you for the information. It is very useful, and I'm glad you've posted it whenever you have. For the record, I have also advised people to use Lo-Salt and/or eat avocado to deal with the potassium issue. I have never advised electrolyte usage because, as you point out, I don't know enough about it.

I'm not an expert and I have never said I am - in fact I've posted disclaimers several times on all the various threads to that effect. There are several people who post on these threads who know more about low carbing than I do, who all add their own opinions and advice as well. I thought that was what this was all about? Supporting each other. I only start the threads. They are not mine.

If you had an issue about me/the way these threads are running, why not point it out to me earlier, whenever you have felt that I am being irresponsible and/or dispensing dangerous advice? You could have posted a warning at any time on these threads, or you could have sent me a PM.

Ok so mum's night out went very well & was a little messy, so feeling v hungover today
Have drank loads of water and found that a bag of pork scratchings this morning really helped. lunch was chicken salad.

Jan - sorry things got worse today, its so hard when things are so volatile, hope things improve for you soon x

QS I think you are being unfair. It is your choice to come onto these threads and keep postin "like a broken record"
BIWI has repeatedly said she is not an expert and advised speaking to Gp and researching yourself.
The ongoing threads are about support and helping each other. It is a godsend for me as I have no one in RL who will support me in this WOE and we have a community spirit here. It is more than just a low carbing thread.

Please don't derail this thread - its really working for lots of us. You and BIWI can Pm each other

Queen Stromba I think BIWI has done a great job and has constantly said she is not an expert and posted disclaimers.

BIWI hope you had a good night out

I keep coming and posting like a broken record about potassium because I'm worried about people's health. I also want as many people to stick to low carbing as possible because it's a much healthier way of eating for most people. We had a wonderful low carb thread going before BIWI started her bootcamp which was very supportive.

QS I think its time you probably went back to your old thread, as the stuff you have posted is very personal and very childish. If you read back through the posts you would see BIWI jokes about things and nobody else finds the things she says offensive. Where as I find your comments very offensive

Oh dear. I think BIWI was asking for information about why the above poster thought she needed electrolyte powder, rather than challenging her decision QS. I have been grateful for your advice about low potassium levels, and grateful for the encouragement from BIWI and everyone else, and amused by the big stick comments.

I don't think it is possible to consider BIWI big headed. Really I don't, and I am upset to think that she may be upset by this.

Wow QS. Where did all that come from? BIWI has spent alot of time coaching and advising, as well as saying she is not an expert. I can imagine BIWI is really upset now, i would be. I hope you are pleased with yourself.

Oh dear . I really have managed to offend you, haven't you? I'm very sorry. And I don't really know what I've done/said or not done/said. But to take your points:

"I've not said anything directly before because I thought you probably would react like I have made a personal dig at you so I've just quietly been telling people to use lo-salt in the hope that you'd eventually notice and mention it in the opening thread since so many posters had been suffering from low potassium."

Why would have thought I would take it personally if you pointed out something like this to me? I'm really puzzled by that. Your information is important and useful, and if you felt that what I was saying, or not saying, was irresponsible and/or dangerous, then why not speak up about it? How do you think I would have taken that as a personal dig? If I hadn't appeared to notice the information about electrolytes, why not tell me? I can't understand why you wouldn't do that. Now you've made a post which is actually way beyond a personal 'dig' and is pretty insulting and very hurtful.

"Today I just got a bit fed up because someone asked about electrolytes and you replied in a way that seemed a bit dismissive of the idea that they might need them"

I was asking Nigella why she thought she needed them so that I could help her. I was trying to establish some information before I launched in with advice. It wasn't dismissive at all.

"The old threads were about all of us supporting each other - these threads are about you shouting at people and being fawned over by posters who act like you invented low carb"

There have been lots of low carb threads over the years I've been on MN. Almost 6 years now. All of them have been supportive. I'm not really sure what you mean, specifically, when you talk about 'the old threads'. When I 'shout' at people, it is actually intended to be in a jokey way - albeit that it's aimed at drawing attention to things they are doing that might be inappropriate/affect them and/or their diet adversely. Hence my current name change. My last one was BIWIWhoMustBeObeyed. Also intended to be a joke.

I don't see people fawning. I see people who are losing weight and who are discovering low carbing for the first time - and who are grateful for it. I'm pleased they are pleased, and I'm delighted they are seeing great results.

"And you can't say that you don't love the attention. You actually asked MNHQ if you could come in for the Briffa web chat and rather than being embarrassed that you'd let your head get so big that you thought you were important enough to be invited, you actually came onto one of these and complained that they said you couldn't come in a rather "don't they know who I am?" sort of way. "

Attention? First, I should say that I have put a lot of time and consideration to all these threads, aiming to help other people learn about low carbing - as well as developing my own learning and understanding. I've learnt a lot from your posts too. You post interesting and important stuff, along with other, more experienced low carbers on MN.

I might also say that as well as what I post here, I get a lot of PMs asking for specific information and help. They don't go unanswered.

Second, yes, I did ask MNHQ if I could go in and meet Dr Briffa. Why not? Nothing ventured, nothing gained! It was me who asked MNHQ to organise the webchat with him, and I was disappointed that I couldn't go in, hence my post about it. For your information, MNHQ apologised, but said that I could always draw their attention to specific questions that I would like to be answered. I declined this, saying that all questions deserved an equal chance of being answered.

"You then did your best to dominate the web chat in a rather pathetic "look at me - I'm the Mumsnet Queen of low carb" sort of way. I hadn't realised how much your big headedness had been annoying me until I realised I was quite pleased that he paid you no special attention and just answered your questions like he did for everyone else."

I took part in the webchat, like everyone else. As far as I am aware, banter and posting on webchats is allowed. I was not trying to dominate it at all. I'm glad he answered other people's questions as well - that was the whole point of a webchat.

I don't think I am big-headed, although evidently something about me irritates you and makes you feel that I am. You don't know me from Adam, so I can't refute your perceptions in any way.

All I can say is that this whole Bootcamp thing was set up with the best of intentions. I post in a way that I think is appropriate at the time. Sometimes I'm serious, sometimes I'm light-hearted. I try to encourage and motivate people as best as I can, with the knowledge and experience that I have. I have never set out to try and own the place or set myself up as the Queen of Low Carbing, or the Queen of Mumsnet, or anything else.

I don't know how, specifically, I have offended you and I'm really sorry that you feel that way about me.

and by the way these are what you need

QS is sounding somewhat jealous of our leaders BIWI'S popularity!

and OMG - BIWI's whole "big Stick" attitude is a piss take of all bootcamp leaders! If you can't see that then that is deffo jealousy.

Oh, I forgot this bit:

"All you did was cut and paste a list of veg with rather inaccurate carb counts from carb life and told people to eat lots of fat and drink lots of water."

Yes, I cut and pasted that list. I've always said I did! And it came from Carblife, which is a dedicated site for low carbing. You and I have both posted carb counts for people for different things - it's always been intriguing to me that sometimes they are different. That's not to say the Carblife counts are wrong, nor that yours are wrong. If the carb counts on the Carblife website are inaccurate, it's hardly my fault!

Yes, I did tell people to eat lots of fat. Was that wrong?

Yes, I did tell people to drink lots of water. As with the fat, this is advice that is given on various other low carb websites. If this is wrong, then post about it and tell us why.

If you can BIWI, I would put this out of your mind. You do not need to justify your position at all. Although you do so very eloquently..