Anyone want to join a thread about Eating Less.

[bumblingbovine]

I read this book by Gillian Riley a while ago and it made so much sense. She has a website here
www.eatingless.com

I may even go to a seminar but I think the book has most of whast you need in it. There is a chapter free on the website to get an idea of the tone

She talks about stopping overeating and says that focussing on weight is completely counterproductive. I really would like to try this but thought it would be useful to have some support.

I have been thinking about this for a while but issues with my ds have got in the way. The other thread on fat/overeating has reminded me

I will need to dig the book out agin but the key thing she talks about is setting some realistic limits on the what, the amount and when you will eat and then sticking to them.

The idea is to "stop overeating" not to "lose weight". In fact you can stop overeating much more easily than you can lose weight and it happens quicker.

So my food plan would be to

Eat 3 balanced meals a day (one portion only - no seconds)every day. This would be
Breakfast between 7am and 9am
Lunch between 12pm and 2pm
Dinner between 6pm and 8pm

To have a maximum of 1 snack a day which should be of a reasonable size and reasonably healthy

Dessert if eaten should be fruit or yoghurt during the week but can be something less healthy at the weekend for dessert if I want it

Success would be sticking to the food plan each day. Weight would not come into it.
everybody's foodplan would be different to suit them

We could check in every few days (or daily) with how we have done or if we are having trouble with cravings and wanting to eat more.

Does anyone want to try this?

Hiya STG,

Funnily enough I had a bit of a dip a day or 2 ago. It was partly 'hijack' in that I was 'persuaded' to eat some birthday cake... oops! I was also, surprisingly , really hungry in the evening.

But today has been better- a work day usually is coz I can't be tempted if there's nothing to eat (avoiding the staff room...). I will drink 2 glasses of wine tonight (Planned!). I have had a Chinese with the family but need to step away from the table when I have had enough to prevent picking. DH was a teensy bit irritating- the starter had 4 selections, and 4 pieces in each. There were 4 of us. DH says, of the left over food on the table 'Whose are those?' to which I said 'No one's. They just haven't been eaten and unless anyone else here wants them, they can go in a tupperware box'. And of the main meal 'We can't just leave that little bit'. Yes we can. It can go in the same box.

Anyway, despite this , I am going to weigh myself tomorrow morning (sorry, GR!) and I will see how I've gone. My hope is that I will be no more than 11-13, preferably 11-12! I have not been as mindful as I should have been this week so I am trying to gird myself up for disappointment and a new steely resolve to Not Eat Rubbish Because It's There.

Hi ladies

I am doing OK.

I had a bit of a blip when DD came home from school and I scoffed a bag of crisps and some dark chocolate, then went out and had dinner out which ended up with two portions (small) and dessert and I REALLY did not need the dessert! Then bought a Cadbury Caramel egg when I stopped to get milk on the way home! Luckily came to my senses and added the egg to the present box I have and will add it to DH's Father's Day gifts on Sunday. He is very lean and can take it!

This is the book that started me on the whole eating journey rather than the dieting journey

Overcoming Overeating: It's Not What You Eat, It's What's Eating You! By Lisa Morrone.

It is written from a Christian perspective so I know it may not be for everyone but I found it helpful.

www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Overeating-What-Whats-Eating/dp/0736927026

I've now got GR's book from the library too and also one called Minful Eating, Mindful Life by Thich Nhat Hanh and Dr Lilian Cheung

www.amazon.com/Savor-Mindful-Eating-Life/dp/0061697699

I have not read this one yet so no idea if it is any good yet. Does anyone else think the new Adios (Strut your funky stuff advert) is crap!

Anyone else watch the Apprentice and think the lads mag cover was crap?

Iva how are you?

Good luck ladies, anyone seen Bumblingbovine?

Despite this last week not perhaps being as 'mindful' as it might have been, thankfully for my motivation, I had lost a little weight and was 11st 12 this morning.

Now I have to avoid becoming blase about it. I tend to look back over the 6 1/2 weeks of 'dieting', ie mindful eating and think 'Actually, that wasn't so hard' rather than accept that it was a bit of a grind and will continue to be one as I try to adapt and adjust to my new way of thinking.

I recognise that I am indeed fortunate because:

-I am not vastly overweight. I can understand how truly demoralising it would be to know you need to lose 5 stone, for example. I wanted to lose 2 stone 4 lbs and am exactly half way there now;
-I have no real mental health issues clouding my thought processes like depression can;
-My weight crept on over several years, a process of overeating just a bit but regularly;
-White wine was a big culprit (or rather, my mindless drinking of it!). It's easier to ease up on something that is not only stacking the lbs on but is also damaging in different ways, though of course the danger with wine is its disinhibiting effects: one glass leads to two etc, so I now buy it in single glass servings;
-I am not truly addicted to food in that I can eat two biscuits, then stop;
-My family are broadly supportive, those that know!

So I have no excuses!

Today I'm meeting 2 women for lunch but have Planned to have soup and a roll instead of the baked potato with cheese and bacon sauce I'd normally choose. I need to go there one day with DH so he can order that and I can have 1/3 of it! It is yum!

And tonight it's... Dominoes Pizza!! DS2 (10) returns from his school residential (and boy have we missed him) so he wants a special treat food. I will eat 1/4 of a medium one.

Anyway, onwards and upwards, fellow "Mindfuls"!

That 'Savour: Mindful Eating, Mindful Life' book looks very interesting, IGH. I am reading the reviews.

Thanks for the links.

I also don't know where bumblingbovine is! Will see if we can find them on another thread and guide them back here!

erebus it's very good news that you don't have a lot to lose but for me it is more of a mountain to climb, at least 3 stones (and I bet others have got more still!). I think for me the key to eating mindfully is that however much you have to lose I will eventually get there when I begin to eat normally/healthily for me height and body type. By that I mean if I were about 6 foot tall I would probably be alright! I'm off to London on the train today so I must remember to take my new GR library book with me to read.

All the best to all.

Hi- not a brilliant day for me BUT I concede I spent most of it shovelling concrete so I probably burned off what I ate!

Now I have to resist a second glass of wine that is c-a-a-a-alling!

Just started reading GR, it's very good. Last New ID tonight. Feeling very positive.
Hope all well with all.

Iva Any news on bullying work thing?

STG how you doing?

Hi again everyone, I've been away for a long weekend, hence the absence.

How are we all doing? Me, not so well, I fear after an initial good start.

However this is the week I am really going to get back into being mindful around me eating.

I've jotted down times and plans for today and I have lots to do in between to distract me.

The hard part for me is wiping out the issues around body shape and image and the reading on the scales.

Guess I still have a long way to go. Am going to listen to the CD this afternoon too and have it in my car this week.

Encouragement needed please?! xx

Steeltowngirl I really think losing the scales will be the thing for me. I just need to eat normally and get some exercise.

Steeltowngirl I also wonder, you have said before about fearing feeling invisible etc or not being noticed as much, I wonder if you need to work on your self esteem as a whole person. By that I mean that I am sure you have a lot to contribute. I am sure you are a good friend and have brains, but you often worry more about your looks. I guess as we are older our looks will be noticed less but that does not mean we will not be noticed, or cared about or thought well of. Sorry if that is not the kind of encouragement you need, I just feel that you need to feel it is important to see yourself as a whole person, not just your external view! All the best, God Bless.

Thanks Italian for your support. You are correct about the self-esteem issues which when I look at myself objectively are silly really.
My DH tells me I am gorgeous and that I look young for my age. I have a great family around me and fab friends all of whom I'm sure love me for who I am rather than what I look like.
Very silly and I need to get a grip.
Your comments have encouraged me.
Just back from a 50 min walk with DH round our village and feeling grateful to have pretty countryside on my doorstep.

By the way I got a book out of the library today called "The Compassionate Mind Approach to Beating Overeating - using compassion focused therapy" by Ken Goss. It sounded American but Dr Goss is based in Coventry. It only came out this year.

Amazon blurb says "This self-help book explores the problems created by having ready access to high fat foods designed to taste good. Because we evolved in conditions of relative scarcity we have few natural food inhibitors and so most diet books try to encourage people to inhibit their eating by highly rule governed behaviours which have to be constantly worked at. However, this can lead to various forms of self-criticism which can undermine efforts at self-control. As a result our relationship with eating can be complex, multifaceted and problematic. "Beating Overeating Using Compassion Focused Therapy" uses Compassion Focused Therapy - a groundbreaking new therapeutic approach - to understand and work with our urges and passions for food. We can learn to enjoy and accept food and pay attention to our biological and emotional needs. This book is for people who have tried diets and found that they don't work and will enable the reader to have a healthier and happier relationship with food and their body. Topics covered: the relationship between our brains and food, the evolutionary background to finding, conserving and eating food; how too much or too little food affects the brain, why diets don't work, factors affecting our eating behaviour (tastes, stress, comfort, etc); body shape and culture; and, developing an inner compassion for one's relationship with food - recognising what we need and what is helpful"

Going to have an early night and skim through it

STG That book looks good.

I am sure you are gorgeous. I think we all need to view ourselves differently, not like skinny 16 year old models but the real women we are!

STG Interesting book- wonder if its approach is quite GR? But as I've said before, any sources of material that might provide that 'a-ha!' moment have got to be good, haven't they? You know how a certain 'sound byte' registers and sticks in our minds? That one!

Good luck with the Plans and Times!

erebus good point - is it (the Goss book) in line with GR? I suspect some of it is, but I know I should really concentrate on one approach, namely GR's at present as in theory I really can see the sense in it.
I think this is another aspect of my behaviour - like the weighing, like the worrying about image - I have to try and modify. That is, whenever I'm in the library (and I have access to quite a few in my local area) I'm always on the lookout for new books/material about the psychology of weight loss and body image.
Again it's another hard habit to break.
I do like the idea of being compassionate towards oneself though. Some of my negative self-talk is quite abusive.
Anyway got off to a positive start today, feeling quite energetic.
Hope you're all well.

Hiya STG

I have to admit that there's still one aspect of GR that 'bothers' me- and that the way you are not supposed to consider the 'what I look like to others' aspect of weight loss at all, as if doing so will cause your new way of eating to fail before your eyes!

OK, I know it's 'Western Values' that are sort of why we have lost our ability to deal with food in a 'normal' way but it's also a fact of our Western society that we do glean a lot of how we feel about ourselves from the feedback we get about our appearance from others. I'd've said it was almost unavoidable!

So I am going off piste a bit. I am going to continue weighing myself once a week. My weight loss stands at about 1-ish lbs a week which is sustainable but the fact is, that hard, cold figure on the scales' readout is a motivator, one of the things that might make me go 'Whoa, that's the downside of thinking you could chow down mindlessly as you have been these last few days woman'. To me, far better that than thinking I'm really getting the hang of the GR mindfulness, then hopping on the scales- and find I've gained half a stone!

Also, one of my motivators will continue to be that I will look and feel fab at the Xmas Do as opposed to the last 3 odd years when I have been desperately scratching around in the back of my wardrobe trying to cobble together an outfit that still fits !

I know that if I choose to use these motivators, they have to be part of the package, not instead of more Mindful Motivators, though!

What do you all think?

STG hope you will find the one thing you need and stick to it.

erebus I don't know why GR writes but what she does but I think the reason that GR is so down on using looks as a motivator is because it is quite a crap, negative one to use. The way it works (I THINK) is like this (for most of us) I look fat and unappealing and ugly and would look so much better if I were slim, and attractive and beautiful. So I will eat less and get slim. But eating less is hard so I can only keep going for a little while and when I hit a snag I might just fall off the wagon, THEN when I try and pick myself up the words I have in my head are "I am fat and ugly and unattractive....etc" rather than being a genuine motivator to some (most) of us these words are just something which COULD/MAY/MIGHT make one think "Oh why bother, what's the point, I'm not worth much anyway" ALL lies of course but that could be how it goes.

IF you are motivated to get fit and healthy, live a long life etc you can start with this, I am TRUELY beautiful, motivational and motivated, healthy and worth loving and caring for, my body is the home I carry around me all the time and it is wonderful, I must nourish it and care for it, love it and look after it because it is truly a miraculous wonderful place to be. Yes, bits of it are bigger or wobblier than I may like, but it is AMAZING and my main job is to care for it. To care for it with all the vigour that I care for my kid/s, hubby/significant other/older relatives etc!

It is about putting yourself back into the driving seat of your life for totally positive reasons and not allowing any down/negative/dirty talk!

The old name and shame approach to looking at fat photos and hating yourself for looking the way you look (I am NOT talking about you personally erebus but just people in general) is NO GOOD because at the end of the day if you do not value yourself you will not (probably not) want to look after yourself.

NOW that is not to say you or I would not look better with a bit less weight on BUT realistically how many times have you seen beautiful fat people and ugly skinny people! I know masses!

Beauty is not about how fat or thin you are BUT health really does go down as the scales go up (as long as people are not underweight of course).

So FOR ME the bottom line is that I must love myself, as I am but want to be healthy, rather than disliking myself as I am and wanting to change myself to fit into a better image.

As I have said before, in my head I am a size 10. I am pretty deluded!

We all need to do it in whatever way works for us so you must follow whatever works for you.

But as we get older and age we must love ourselves as we are. We may still want to dye our hair (I?ve dyed mine since about 30 anyway) and look nice etc but we must also want to look good for ourselves, not just for others, because if it is all about others that gives the power away. That others can make us feel good or crap about ourselves and if you feel crap about yourself then you may well splurge on cake to make yourself feel better rather than nourishing a body that you may dislike!

So it is very complex but I think that is what GR means. It is also what the New ID course I did does, I think, in one sense. They do not have pics of fat or skinny people to motivate the over or under eaters, because we are all loved by God and we are all beautiful but some of us are not treating ourselves nicely due to too much or too little food, or perhaps even the wrong kind of food.

Happy to discuss further and for people to disagree and IF looking good is a GENUINE motivator for anyone I would not want to spoil that! Hugs

Hello everyone,
Sorry about the radio silence, no real reason just been too busy to type but not busy enough to read! I'm still getting soooo much from all of your posts, your honesty and courage are a real inspiration.
As for me, things are ok-ish. I can kind of feel the momentum from my original enthusiasm slowing down and have slipped-up a few more times in the past week or so. Not really big binges or anything, just little hiccups if you like. The problem is that these can be the things that add up to a big problem.
Social life has been good lately, lots of events centreing around food which can be tough, although I do find that I'm able to put down the fork a lot sooner these days.
The bullying at work business is still ongoing, I'e had to make an official complaint which is really stressful although I'm really pleased to report that I haven't used food as stress relief. In fact the very act of having the courage to stand up to this bully has increased my self esteem ten-fold.
All else is good, although my hormones have been causing me grief. When I'm due on I get terrible cravings for sweet, sticky, starchy stuff. It's been a battle. On the plus side, however, the migraines that usually plague me this time of the month have backed off and I wonder if that's related to reducing my consumption of sugary stuff. I've been less moody - I suffer from PMDD - and hope that is a connection too. Over the last year my moods have got worse and I was putting it down to my age, but in retrospect it all coincided with my weight increasing.
Tomorrow I have an appointment with a dietician (made before I started reading this book) and I intend to mention GR's approach to them. I will probably be weighed and will be interested to see any results as my clothes are definitely looser and people have been commentin (in true GR style, I acted kind of surprised and changed the subject).
I've also just ordered the Compassionate Mind book for my Kindle (it's on offer!) as I've finished GR's books and need a little reinforcement.
Anyway, lovely to hear from you all, you really are a positive, affirming bunch of ladies!

Italiangreyhound
"As I have said before, in my head I am a size 10. I am pretty deluded! "

I soooo have to agree with this, sometimes I think I suffer from " reverse anorexia" when I look in a mirror I don't see what the problem is! Photos, however, reveal the truth in all its "glory". The hardest thing is definitely acceptance and having the guts to face the truth. And yet still love ourselves.

Hello Iva do hope it will all continue well. I just slipped a bit, a bag of sweets and two packs of Sunbites! But I now feel totally full and I am guessing that the whole thing is really only the equivelant to a bit of choco cake!

Hugs to all.

Oh help! Typed a great long message to you all and somehow lost it - that's never happened to me before. Damn.

I was basically thanking you for all your support - seems like it's just the 4 of us now - Iva, erebus, italian.

Really appreciated your words of wisdom italian and wish I could have a go at the New ID thing. You are so right about the negative self-talk. I need to work on this.

erebus I don't think I could just do the GR thing on its own, I have to combine it with the odd weigh in, with distracting myself, with reading other books, with exercising. But I do believe in most of her approach.

Haven't quite got started with the Goss book yet but should have some time tomorrow.

Have realised that most of my "disordered eating" takes place when I am alone in the house, which is quite a lot of the time, so I'm looking at how to approach that without using distraction or avoidance mechanisms.

Iva so sorry to hear about the bullying issue, but glad the flipside is an increase in self-esteem. Hope you'll let us support you on this. Also interested in the hormones thing. I'm 52 and menopausal and definitely think this has a bearing on my eating patterns.

Do wish we could all get together over a to discuss further - oops, I meant of course.

Had pasta for tea with DH and DS and feel a bit bloated now, but important to me for us to sit down en famille and eat the same food.

Not going to catastrophize about it, going to curl up and watch a TV prog I've recorded!

Hope to hear back from you all when you can, and hope all's going well!

xxxx

Hiya - just touching base- will post in more detail on Friday when I have more time. Keep up the good work and thanks for all the input!

And today as work, whilst reviewing 4 looong documents I was typing an email as I went along to send to someone who really needed a précis and my input- then managed to delete the lot. 2 1/2 hours work.

I feel your pain STG!

STG just because others are not posting does not mean they are not reading. I read fertility ones for a while before posting!

Hugs to all.

I'm still here and reading-very busy time of year for me so have not posted. Have ordered the Goss book too.
As old Mr Grace used to say, "your all doing very well"

Thank you winedog nice to hear from you?

Any one else lurking?

BumblingBovine where are you?

Morning everyone!
Good to hear from you again winedog and yes, I hope bumblingbovine will come back as she set the ball rolling and I would love to know how she's doing.
I've got up today feeling altogether more positive and energetic; nothing to trip me up today food-wise that I can predict.
Italian I re-read your post on loving yourself and not using looks and outward appearances as a yardstick. You are so right, it's just that years of conditioning and unhealthy thought-patterns are quite hard to discard but I am working on it and you make a lot of very good points I can relate to, particularly with regard to coping with ageing.
I think I personally would find the Christian course very helpful and will keep an eye open for one in my local area. I think I need reinforcement and reassurance that I am valuable and loved for what I am.
Hope you all have a good day. Love to all.

Hello all,
Just got back from the dietitian. No significant weight loss but clothes are definitely feeling looser, so not losing hope yet.
Am pleased to report that the appointment was not as scarey or as judgemental as I feared. We spent the first half of the session comparing my lifestyle to that of the previous generations with regards to food availibility and choice and physical activity, highlighting the fact that my weight issues are part of "fitting into my environment" and not an excuse for self-blame for being 'weak'. It was very refreshing to hear that from a health professional, especially as previous experience has been a raft of doctors etc telling me to stop being such a glutton.
We then looked at my dietary habits and again it was surprising to realise that my diet is much healthier than I realised. I have always branded myself as a 'veggie-hater' but when we examined the vegetables I could actually tolerate the list was better than I thought. I'm perfectly happy to eat veggies when mixed in with other foods, such as bolognaisse, curry, chilli etc, but stick plain veggies on my plate and I go greener than the broccoli.
I mentioned the GR philosophy and the dietitian definitely conceded with the view that 'diets' don't work.
We have booked fortnightly sessions and then may move on to group sessions, which really interests me as I have always felt I have benefitted from that form of 'therapy'.
I have been given a set of missions to have achieved by next time:
-eat breakfast every day
-have ONE glass of fruit juice each day
-eat one piece of fruit each day
-limit snacks between meals to one each day (even if it is chocolate)
-half the portion of meat that I normally serve myself at mealtimes, whilst increasing carb and vegetable intake
-leave something on my plate at every meal
-'physical inactivity' religiously every 30 mins, meaning getting up out of my chair and moving around moderately.

These all seem like highly reasonable and attainable goals.
My biggest issue I suspect is my 'aiming to please' urges, wanting to be a 'good patient' for this dietitian. I have to not care what she thinks and do this for MYSELF. I remember really needing the approval of my Slimming World consultant which was all well and good when the weight loss was going well but mutated to resentment and avoidance of the very same person when things started going wrong for me.
That's obviously a self-esteem thing that needs work on.