Use of MJ at healthy weight

[TheBlueDeer]

Anyone on here who has obtained MJ by lying about their already healthy weight etc? I’m v curious to know your experience, have you only needed the lower doses, did you stay on it for maintenance etc etc

Out of interest, does it come out much cheaper or is it more about being able to access it at a normal BMI?

Honestly? Wayyyyy cheaper. I purchased 10 lots of 60mg for £120…👀 that will last me absolutely ages.

I’m not sure if your logic there, the risks are the same irrelevant of your weight. And rapid weight loss is down to the individual not the drug.

it also doesn’t comprehend the safety record of these drugs, which is clearly astonishingly safe, not one death in well over 50 million using globally, but multiple wider health benefits.

in addition it’s a weekly injection, or now a daily tablet, if you don’t like it you just stop.

This is such an interesting explanation and experience.
And perfect for me as what you describe regarding ‘alcohol noise’ , I very much relate to! So it really helps me understand.
I wonder if GLP’s will be used eventually for treating alcohol addictions etc?
I don’t eat too much and I eat well… I am ‘normal’ size (14) not sure my BMI - but I am struggling to lose weight my Peri weight gain. And I know Alcohol plays a big part in that!

My point is people say the pay off of risk is not worth it if you have a lower BMI, ie the risks of WLI are only worth it if you have a BMI. But I think the risk profile is different for people on lower BMIs, there isn’t much of a risk of pancreatitis if you don’t have a lot of weight to lose.

If you are a heavier weight you are more likely to experience rapid weight loss, and it is rapid and dramatic weightloss that causes things like pancreatitis. If you’re a lower weight the chances are you are going to lose more slowly as you have less to lose, less dramatically, you’re not likely going to get up to the higher doses. I lost 20lb over 3 months (almost entirely on 2.5mg), this is the same pace I have done it before losing weight naturally. If you have a BMI of 30+ (and respond well to the drug) the sudden change in appetite and thus diet is likely to cause a higher rate of loss, which is where the risks lie.

Exactly, my BMI is just over 19 and I was prescribed 5mg pen a couple of weeks ago. I was BMI 28 when I started taking it. Have used 2.5mg mostly with the odd 3.75 dose for a month or so early on. I dont even feel like I am taking any medication at all other than i get full quickly(at first I did even in on only 2.5mg, I was so sick). I got to goal weight end March but have lost a further 12lbs so just trying to find my maintenance dose now as would like to be around BMI 20/21.

I put on a bit of weight once I turned 40 which coincided with an injury. I ha ent been overweight all my life or anything but really struggled to lose more than 10lbs as would not be able to sustain losing any kust put it on and lost it many times over 5 years. It took me about 2 months to get to a healthy BMI and about 4 months to lose 3 stone.

This is a very good point, the weight loss will be very small compared to anyone starting at obese, so the risks significantly lower across the board as much of the risks are associated with obesity and weight loss in the first place.

also it’s now proven the drugs don’t increase the risk of pancreatitis, and also reduce the risk of pancreatic cancer, with mounjaro having the highest reduction rate v wegovy.

as said, when I first started I also gate kept. And also trotted out the nonsense about risks being offset due to obesity, but it’s clearly nonsense. The direct risks are the same irrelevant of weight, and these are very safe drugs, it’s a huge advancement in science.

And as there is no additional risk for lower weight people, and all the benefits, I can’t see the issue here past the deception one.

buying from unlicensed manufacturers on the black market is a different story, I’d certainly not be injecting myself with that. As who knows when the issues will become apparent. And I can’t get my head round anyone who does. But it’s their life, their body, their health. I also don’t take other illegal drugs, be it coke or mdma as I’m fully aware it jist takes one dodgy pill and you’re done for good, but others happily take the risk with their lives.

Anyway, if I’m able to keep taking it at bmi 20 for maintenance, I’m certainly not going to say others shouldn’t, as long as it’s legitimate product that’s quality controlled.

journals.lww.com/ajg/fulltext/2024/10001/s5_glp_1_receptor_agonists_and_pancreatic_cancer.6.aspx

I think it should be available for people of a 'normal' BMI. I lost 100lbs 20 years ago and kept it off until perimenopause struck. I have put on a stone. I still exercise, I am very careful with food, I weight train. I think I have stopped putting more weight on by being very strict. However if I could take a very low dose of this for a few months to help me lose what I've put on. Seems like I will have to put on another stone to be able to get this, which I really don't want to do.

Medical risk tolerance should be a personal choice IMO. If it’s not contraindicated for people maintaining on it with a healthy BMI, then it should be up to the people who start it already healthy to decide if they accept the risks or not

Not now, though? I’ve had a heathy BMI for 18m and still take it?

To be fair you are, as am I, to prevent regain.

Whilst I agree, the regulatory authories won’t agree. I dont think it will ever be approved as it’s a tricky one, as you don’t want people to use it to become underweight, which is a risk when you start with the healthy weight cohort. Then you’ve a whole host of medical issues that can arise from that. As a much larger percentage of people who are a healthy weight taking it, will only be doing so for vanity reasons and as such, may encounter eating disorders that will damage their bodies.

it will be approved I suspect for healthy weight people with medical issues, be it endo, or cardio issues or dementia, but for anyone healthy it won’t be about the drugs and their physiogical impact but more the reason for heslthy weight people taking it and the resulting risks that people could encounter from that.

I suspect the bmi will come down to 25/26 as a starting point, and below that for people with medial issues, but for healthy weight people with medical issues I don’t think it will ever be approved.

yes people who had obesity can use it to maintain, as regain is very dangerous and obesity is a relapse disease, but a healthy weight person with no obesity and no medical issues is unlikely to be ever legitimately prescribed this medication.

I lost weight decades ago before GLPs and have kept it off. I lost 100 lbs so not a small amount. I now need help in peri so it should be easier for me to get them as I have once been obese but I won't be able to get them. Such a shame. I have fought hard to get out of my eating disordered mindset which I had after I lost the weight and I am also concerned that putting on weight as I am and now having to be super strict with what I eat to just hold off the weight gain is going to start encouraging my disordered thoughts again and I haven't had them for years.

Yeah i agree. I have never been obese but have had disordered eating since I was 17. MJ has helped me so much with my relationship with food.

Obesity is a lifelong condition even when you’re not overweight - because if you stopped taking medication the conditions consequences (ie getting obese again) would reassert itself.

I suffer from obesity, now been a BMI of 21 for 14 months. But I need the 10mg MJ to maintain it or my obesity’s consequences would come back.

I would put on weight, my inflammation would come back, I’d likely get diabetic as I was just into it etc

Obesity is not ‘being really fat’ much like being sober stops you being an addict. The disease is still there in the background waiting for you to stop taking the medication.

I know that trails are underway to examine the impact of GLP-1 agonists on AUD (Alcohol use disorder). I asked Claude about trails for addictions more broadly and it gave me the info below;

Yes, quite actively — it's become one of the more exciting areas of GLP-1 research.Yes, quite actively — it's become one of the more exciting areas of GLP-1 research. Trials are underway or recently completed looking at:

Alcohol — probably the most advanced, with Novo Nordisk running specific trials on semaglutide for alcohol use disorder

Opioids — there are trials looking at whether GLP-1 agonists reduce cravings and relapse rates, with some promising early signals

Cocaine and stimulants — earlier stage but active research, particularly in the US where the stimulant addiction crisis is significant

Nicotine/smoking — some observational data suggesting people on GLP-1s spontaneously smoke less, and trials are following up on that

Gambling and behavioural addictions — very early stage but researchers are interested given the reward pathway mechanism

The underlying theory across all of these is the same — GLP-1 receptors in the brain's dopamine reward circuitry appear to dampen the "want" signal that drives addictive behaviour, not just for food but for anything that triggers that system. If that holds up it would be quite a profound finding, essentially suggesting these drugs are modulating reward-seeking behaviour generally rather than just appetite specifically.

The challenge is that addiction trials are slower and harder to run than weight loss trials — outcomes are less easy to measure and confounders are everywhere. But given the scale of the addiction crisis globally, there's a lot of research money going in. Worth watching over the next 3-5 years.

I need to stop taking MJ because I was not overweight when I started and I am now approaching the lower end of the healthy BMI band. I also have a history of ED (a long time ago) but I can see that being on this drug is not very good for me in that respect. There is a drug called Naltrexone which works differently to the GLP-1s but is a pharmacological 'solution' to AUD so I might investigate that if I struggle to manage my alcohol consumption when I come off MJ.

Oh I know the MHRA wont ever agree but I meant to the posters saying it’s too risky for healthy people. It should be left to the person to decide what the risk is and if they accept it or not.

This will never be the case in the UK because prescribers are always professionally and legally liable for the consequences of the medications they prescribe. As a patient you cannot sign away the right to be protected by the regulations under which prescribers are bound. Prescribers responsibilities always trump patients’ wants.

Professional and corporate insurance cover would be invalidated, membership of professional bodies would risk being withdrawn. The only exceptions to this is when patients take part in regulated clinical trials - and the ethical oversight, counselling and legal administration involved in ensuring patients, who are usually facing death or… death, truly understand the risks, is enormous

ETA just to add. My DS was/is the youngest test subject used by Eli Lily to-date for Mounjaro monitoring having started at 16, lost 6.5 stone, and now being 18 and entering the maintenance phase. The hoops, clinical assessments etc involved in his being a patient (under the personal care of a leading UK endocrinologist) was unending. And the results extraordinary.

As the parent of a child with anorexia, I find it deeply concerning that it is apparently so easy to get this medication by lying and that it looks likely that it will only become easier still in the future.

I have a BMI of 25/26 and applied to Bolt for WLI. I may have reduced my height a bit and upped my weight a little to give a BMI of 28 but they said no unless I have an additional issue which I don’t. I’d really like to get my BMI down to say 23 as I feel a lot healthier there but exercise and diet just isn’t cutting it post menopause. Any tips for another provider who might supply it?

I lied to get it initially,but from a pharmacy,now buy tirzepatide,to maintain, just because it's cheaper, and I'd have to lie again from a pharmacy because my BMI would probably be too low. I take a small dose,keeps everything ticking over.

Pharmacies prescribe down to BMiI 19 if you're already on it

I think Voy and med express do to bmi 25. Do you not have any health conditions at all ie sore joints, menopause etc?

Med express prescribed Wegovy to me at BMI 25.

I don’t have sore joints. Am on HRT.
Having sent an email saying they wouldn’t prescribe under BMI 30 without other issues Bolt then emailed again saying that was a mistake and the prescription has gone through - so am now sorted.