Why are some people so angry about people lying to get MJ?

[Roxietrees]

The only conclusion I can come to is pure jealousy. They don’t want overweight people (with bmi 25-29) getting slim, they want to be the only ones who get to be slim and hot. Less competition that way.
I’ve seen some ridiculous statements on here, one to someone with a bmi of 29.8 who lied to get it - someone said they were “unbelievably stupid and irresponsible” and “putting their life at risk”….how can they possibly be putting their life at risk anymore than someone with a bmi of 30?! Cos being 0.2 lighter suddenly makes the medication dangerous 🤣
Should people with a bmi of 28 binge eat to put on enough weight to make them eligible? Isn’t that far more dangerous?
If the meds really were that dangerous to slimmer people there is no way you’d be able to get them by submitting a few photos and self-reporting your weight online.
I actually do meet the criteria but I have plenty of friends on it who don’t and I have zero judgement. Some of them have been overweight their whole lives and are unable to shift that 2-3 stone. Why should they have to stay overweight when an obese person can easily get down to a bmi of 19 with injections? I suspect that if you weren’t allowed to use them after your bmi got down to 30 all the righteous, judgmental people on them would start fudging their own numbers on the scales.
It just feels like a bit of an attitude amongst some people of “this is our thing and we don’t want you to have it”….disguised as concern about the health impacts…which is so obviously bullshit. Why aren’t the same people ranting about how easy it is for alcoholics to get alcohol? Or why aren’t they focusing on young anorexic people obtaining MJ (which is happening and is genuinely concerning)? It’s just so obviously jealousy. They’ll be available to people with bmi 25+ soon anyway

Oh sweet child of mine.

Fast weigh loss diets should only be for people in the obese category who are at risk of other complications.

The reason for this is this.

Losing weight quickly will cause you to lose muscle mass. This is impossible to avoid.

Once you lose muscle mass, if you then regain weight, your body does not think 'I'll regain muscle'. It regains body fat.

So you may then up weighing 15 stone again, and a higher proportion of that 15 stone is now fat, and a lower proportion is muscle.

The reason that this is problematic is that fat is less metabolically active. It burns less calories at rest. So now you need to diet again and it's even harder as you have more of this less metabolically active body tissue. You have to Eat less calories to lose weight than if you had tried before. And guess what, that isn't sustainable. Additionally muscle is really hard to regain unless you are intentional. And muscle tissue is so important for all sorts of things - preventing frailty in older age, hormonal synthesis during menopause, memory and learning and so on.

Mountjaro is really a one and done thing, not something you should 'give a go' because it's easier.

My understanding is that it's more the serious health issues than the side effects that top the risk balance, although that may be semantics.
The risk of the side effects like nausea, constipation etc isn't great either if you're morbidly obese or a few pounds overweight. The risk of things like pancreatitis though balances differently for someone whose weight is increasing their likelihood of cancer, heart issues etc than for someone in the overweight BMI range.

This is part of my point. Why should someone who started out with a bmi over 30 then be able to continue taking it with a bmi of 21 when someone with a starting bmi of 21 can’t take it? It would make more sense that people could only take it until their bmi got below 30. Or imo below 25 and it should be available to everyone with a bmi of 25 & over. It’s only available to adults - adults have a personal responsibility for their own health and should be able to weigh up the pros and cons of taking it and make an informed decision. It’s a personal decision. It shouldn’t be anyone else’s business whether they choose to take it or not as long as they are paying for it privately.

You keep repeating that its a high risk medication, but you dont say why, or link anything to back it up.

Its clear you haven't researched it very well

I have made it down to BMI 21, but it isn't just the weight loss that has changed my life. I have gone from drinking too much every day to not drinking at all. Ten years of menopausal symptoms have disappeared and I have stopped taking my HRT. I no longer need my antihypertensives. It has a lot of other effects. It's more complicated than some make it out to be.

What do you mean by a high risk medication? Compared to a great many other medications it is not at all.

Because a body that has previously been obese behaves differently to one that's always been a healthy weight, even if they are currently the same weight. Fat cells change size and even increase in numbers when someone is obese.
It's not about it's not faaaaaaair, it's about continuing to treat the disease of obesity, which hasn't gone away just because the weight is lost, any more than depression has gone away because someone is on antidepressants.

How many times did you need to edit that? 🤣 but okay I’m the dense one. Christ some people are thick.

But I’ll explain again….type 2 diabetes is caused by being overweight.The weight loss jabs were designed to help people manage their type 2 diabetes… not any other health conditions say heart disease or high blood pressure which are related to being fat. They were designed specifically to mimic the GLP-1 hormone which helps regulate appetite and food intake. So those who have type 2 diabetes, are taking it to help reduce their appetite and lose weight.

FYI you, yes you actually used the words “health reasons” not me. But incase you forget I’ll remind you “ the main reason I don’t want people lying to procure MJ is because it will make it harder and harder for people who need it for health reasons to be prescribed, taking more time and increasing costs” 🤣🤣🤣

I haven't come across anyone jealous. If your BMI is too low for the jab, the chances are that you could lose weight through diet and exercise. Why take unnecessary risks when you don't have much weight to lose?

To repeat my last post. Shouldn’t it be up to the individual to decide whether they want to take those risks? People don’t express this outpouring (from what I’ve seen) of concern when people go on fad diets where they lose weight at the same speed as being on injections. They maybe just roll their eyes. This is why I think all the “concern” is not genuine, it’s jealousy because people feel threatened. People aren’t as bothered about other people going on fad diets cos they know they won’t last and they’ll just pile the weight back on. With MJ people can be on it for life if they want (assuming it’ll be available long-term) that’s why people are feeling threatened. That is just my opinion though, from the kind of reactions I’ve seen on MN and also amongst my colleagues who regularly bitch about the two women we work with who have been open about being on MJ and getting it while overweight but not obese. Both have lost a lot of weight and look great. They’re also both lovely people. I don’t understand why (mainly other women) can’t be happy for them.

Remember thalidomide?
WLI are not fully tested, and the long term effects have not been analyzed at all.

You can’t lie to get it free on the NHS, it’s currently only free for type 2 diabetes patients. You can fake or lie about having type 2 diabetes.

You're talking about the pharmacy guidelines being broken though

In the post I was replying to, its implied that the person obtaining the MJ by nefarious means is lying. Much like if I get over the counter meds in one pharmacy and then go into another and have the same conversation to get more.

No one is going to get sued in that scenario.

I don't need to say why or back up why it is high risk, and I am not qualified to do that, the qualified professionals at the GPhC have done it for us by classifying it as a high risk medication and requiring stricter prescribing guidelines which were released this year.

Would love to hear your research and qualifications that you can imply otherwise?

But if their lying and getting around it easily it means the system isn't working and will eventually become stricter

Weight loss jabs have been licensed since 2017 in the US. And they would have been created years before that. 8 years you would think horrible side effects would have been disclosed by the FDA by now? In your example of thalidomide the effects were almost immediate which caused the miscarriages.

@Witchypooforyou thanks for this, in that case it doesn’t really bother me. Unless it’s cheaper to get it via NHS and people are lying to get it on NHS prescription (chargeable) rather than pay more and go private as they should be doing if they don’t meet NHS criteria.

We are talking about medicating a condition, not a fad diet.

A more comparable example is shouldn't it be up to the individual if they want free reign to take any strong opioids they want, or free reign to take steroids to bulk up, testosterone for anti-aging, benzos for sleep. Prescription only medications are prescription only because they carry risks and controls are in place to prevent harm.

Wow really! I have a BMI of 23 and very happy. That’s crazy to me. Is there some kind of backstory here?

It may do, it may not. Ive always wondered why, given the guidelines around paracetamol, you can pick it up in supermarkets, any pharmacy etc.

Yet we know the damage done by overuse, misuse and overdose, similar with other pain killing drugs.

No central pharmacy register where you have to give your details and provide ID for strong painkillers, thats not difficult to bring in (albeit costly)

So things are only made 'stricter' under some circumstances, not others, a lot of it is political, with a big P and a little p. Some of it is about optics. Some of it is about licencing.

But as Ive already said, the way around this, as best we can, is to have it prescribed easily by your GP, no hoops to jump through like a 4 year long waiting on a 'weight loss programme'. If you're fat and have no contra indications and the side effects are not counter productive, then you should have it.

😢

So sad, I hope they get the help they need to get well @Disturbia81 x

Doesn’t bother me who lies to get it anymore. I have zero knowledge in any of the research carried out but one thing we all know is big pharma will do anything for a quick buck so for them to have a cut off point there must be a reason. Same as the online pharmacies selling MJ, having to go through photos and video calls must be a ball ache for them and it was so much easier to buy MJ when I first started than it is now, I guess none of us are qualified to say if having a BMI of 29 makes a difference because we haven’t carried out research into it and just have to trust the companies that have and know better.

I’m not angry. I don’t care if people want to attempt to fraudulently obtain it. It will get progressively harder for these people to try and get it though, I’m sure.

I have nothing to hide about my medical history or current health and I’ll always be able to afford it and access it - unless it gets banned or whatever.

If people want to take the risk of going against the current guidelines, that’s up to them.

Obesity is a life long condition that may need life long medication (or treatment whatever word you want to use)

I cant get it removed from my travel insurance due to the way obesity is seen as a condition. My bariatric nurse also talked to me about this being a life long disease. You are still considered as suffering from obesity even after losing the weight. Ive been a healthy BMI for 2 years now, maintaining consistently.

That is considered 'very early stages'.

If you have been taking MJ with a higher BMI previously some companies will offer you maintenance when you reach a healthy BMI. I believe there’s a few who will prescribe you again if you have stopped within a certain timeframe, this sounds like what the poster has done not started with a BMI of 23.