Everyone just hates fat people

[mamabeeboo]

Yes I'm fat and yes I'm taking the WLI.

I've had it out with a friend of a friend during a catch up dinner yesterday and I'm fuming.

I've lost some weight and still have a good 5 or so stone more to go before I'm anywhere near the 'normal' BMI category. So no, I'm not wasting away or disappearing, or losing weight too fast.

The mistake I made was being honest about the jabs. But I stand by it, I think it's important to get healthy, regardless of how you do it, just get there.

ANYWAY, this person has suddenly decided to feel concerned for my health, now that the loss has become noticeable. With some silent nods from others about how you should 'just eat less and move more'. No shit is that what was supposed to do?!

A big discussion about:
just have willpower
just have smaller portions
do it the normal way, you don't know what you're putting into your body
it's not healthy
just put down the fork
it's about dicipline
it's not really losing weight though, is it (huhh??)
it's more rewarding to do it the normal way so you can feel achievement

It's gotten me thinking of how so many people just hate fat people. You want us to pay for being fat, to suffer at the gym doing workouts we don't like or can't do with joint pain and back pain etc. You want us to 'just have willpower' like it's that easy. You want us to try all the diets and fail so you can feel superior with your 'discipline' and that you 'look after your body'.

You hate the fact that these WLI have levelled the playing field.

I said all this yesterday and it became very frosty. These aren't my friends, I was there for the birthday girl, but I won't sit there and take it.

I'm posting because I'd love to hear what you might have heard when talking about WLI. (Or if anyone agrees with the above 🤔)

Those people aren't liable to change their minds, but we can try and minimise any harm their comments might do to people reading.

I think about food every second of every day, it's not a competition. There are some slim people who struggle too.

(my post is replying to the OP's original post - hope that's okay! I know this is a long thread so didn't want my reply to be confusing if the conversation has taken a tangent).

Hi Mamabeeboo :) I wanted to say that I am really very sorry that you had to be in the room with such a judgmental "friend of a friend". The silver lining to that person being so grotty towards you is that you know for sure that they aren't someone you want to be spending time with - hooray for boundaries!!! They clearly have rubbish social skills.

Was your friend who introduced you to this nasty person at the event too? If so - and if they are actually your friend - they should have seen how upset you were/are and told the other person to zip it. It would have been easy for your friend to figure out that you'd likely be upset by that conversation: no one likes to be lectured or told what to do when it comes to health (or indeed many other things in life) - and clearly you hadn't sought the "friend of a friend's" advice, and this wasn't a situation where your decisions were somehow harming that person (like if you'd been smoking cigarettes near them, or speeding with them in the car, or being aggressively intoxicated etc etc). If your friend saw all this happening and did nothing to help you/defend you/tell the "friend of a friend" they were out of line etc then, sadly, maybe your friend isn't actually much of a friend...again it can be useful to see people showing their true colours.

If you want to try WLI then try them - you don't have to explain yourself to anyone except your doctor (and even then it's a very limited interaction: if you qualify for them, then all they should be doing is making sure you aren't having any harmful side effects/are getting the care you need etc). Anyone who makes you feel bad for taking them isn't worth interacting with.

As for your broader point about people "hating" fat people...that is a topic of potential conversation that could fill up a hundred mumsnet websites I'm sure, because it's impossible to know exactly what motivates every single person who has expressed a negative view about "being fat"...I think it's true that most people don't want to be fat and would rather be whatever is viewed as an "attractive" weight (but the definitions and reasonings are infinite)...and sadly that means that some of them can end up projecting their own fears onto others (who may not share their fears at all). I think it's also true that there has been something of a backlash against famous people who pushed what some people called a "fat is beautiful" agenda, but are now curiously taking WLI, losing lots of weight, and having to explain why they previously were telling people that "fat is beautiful" but now seem to have had a change of heart. But that's a backlash against those people appearing to be liars, not a backlash against "fat people" generally. There also seems to be a backlash against people who argue that fat people should get special privileges that average sized people do not get (for example, like getting two seats on an airplane rather than just one...). But, again, that's a backlash against people who are acting in an entitled and bratty way - and just happen to be fat...you can find lots of people who think they deserve a free upgrade on planes :)

The overall point being, as Ru Paul so famously says, "what other people think of me is none of my business". If someone hates you because you are fat then that is their problem. Imagine if someone hated you because they didn't like the way your ears were shaped...you'd likely dismiss that person as being a nitwit and give no thought to it - and that's exactly how to approach this: if people want to "hate" being fat then that's their problem. It's not yours. If you're happy taking WLI then that's all that matters.

Since studies have shown that WLIs are very effective at cancer prevention (a disease which 1 in 2 of us will get), wouldn’t it make sense to remove the BMI barrier and open up WLI accessibility to all of the adult population? To allow those who choose to, to take advantage of the cancer prevention benefits.

I saw a post on instagram where the majority of people were saying they should be banned in case people with eating disorders manage to get them.
There are a lot of people invested in WLI not being available. Lot of straws and pearls being clutched.

And it’s women, women wanting to stop other women having access.

So what?

They're not going to ban the one of the most successful health interventions that has been invented in a generation. Only comparable prevention I can think of is vaccines, everything else is preventing existing disease eg antibiotics (although occasionally used to prevent infection to be fair)

No. The studies cited upthread relate to a halving of the risk of obesity related cancers, which are not a risk to people with healthy BMIs.

Thanks for explaining. So it doesn’t prevent cancer then—it’s down to the obesity related heath risks that have been known for decades.

I can't remember where I read or heard it, but someone was saying this week that if it works in a preventative way then there is a likelihood it can be utilised as a cure in some way too. I would guess there is a lot of research being done on that at the moment.

This isn't strictly speaking true: someone who isn't obese/overweight should not be taking WLI - they only reduce the changes of obesity-related cancers. There are studies that show a potential for them increasing the chances of thyroid cancer - and if it is true that they can increase stress on the pancreas then it would seem a fair conclusion that they could make a pancreas more susceptible to inflammatory illness (which cancer can be). The big plus seems to be that they can cause people to "recover" from type two diabetes - which of course is a massive benefit. They cannot do anything for Type One - so the notion that people should just be able to take them as a prophylactic measure if they aren't overweight is not a good argument to be making. Or, to use a different explanatory example: birth control pills can increase the risk of certain cancers/DVT et BUT becoming pregnant has far more potential risks to a woman's health (it's true - being pregnant and birthing a child has all kinds of risks of health maladies) so the competing risks are weighed and whichever one has less risk is what doctors tend to suggest. But someone who is celibate would not be advised to take BCPs - there is no benefit to taking them (putting aside the people who take them to control other illnesses of course) and the risks would outweigh those non-benefits.

Of course there are additional considerations, particularly in the UK where we all have an interest in the NHS not paying for meds that aren't necessary. Clearly people who have type 2 diabetes and are obese should have access to them. But people who are a healthy weight and just want to take them to become "better looking" shouldn't be able to access NHS-funded WLI.

It will be interesting to see how the research on this pans out. As the drugs reduce levels of inflammation, which might be an issue for people who are not obese too, isn’t there a possibility they will reduce cancer incidence in non-obese people? Similarity for heart disease for which inflammation is a cause (nb am just wondering, I am not an expert in this 😊).

that is a big "IF" and we would need to wait for the results of whatever clinical trials are being done. Taking WLI just because there is a "chance" that "maybe" they could "cure" a cancer is a perilous path to head down unless and until there is actual clinical evidence from appropriately conducted trials to back that assertion.

Yes, of course. I'm not sure why you'd think I was suggesting otherwise! I literally just said that there was likely a lot of research being done following the recent news, not that chemo should immediately be replaced with WLI 🙄

Yes, and going to the petrol station at 6pm on a Sunday for some chocolate is hardly extreme behaviour. I would do that just because I like chocolate very much!

Going the the 24hr shop at 3am on the other hand...

People don't die from obesity over night. It comes about through years and years of unhealthy habits and the associated health risks can take decades to manifest.

Taking WLI for a week has been enough to kill people.

WLI is not medication that is keeping people alive. They are an aid to help people potentially live longer through weight loss.

If you stopped WLI you wouldn't drop dead like people with hypertension or diabetes would if they didn't have their medication.

@MerlinsBeard1 if I stop taking my high BP medication I won't drop dead. My BP would increase and that would increase my risk for things like stroke and aneurysm, heart disease and so on, gradually over time. It's actually really very similar to the risks of being obese for a lengthy time.

Insulin and probably every medication used to treat high BP have been involved in people's deaths too. The risk of that very vary rare occurrence happening isn't sufficient to negate the massive benefits of those medications.

What difference does this make? I take some medicines which I need to maintain my health each day and some which are for my longer term health. I weigh up the risks/benefits for both types as I am able to think about my long term health as well as the next few days.

My mother's blood pressure is so high that she would most likely drop dead if she stopped her medication.
Untreated high blood pressure would kill you quicker than obesity, that is why it is called the silent killer. Obviously the two are often linked.

People can argue all they like but WLI are NOT lifesaving medication. They are a weight loss aid, nothing more.

The difference with WLI is people are risking their immediate health/life in the hopes of a healthy future self. This can't be applied to any other medication.

Of course we can disagree about this, it’s certainly been life saving for me so far. And of course the MHRA agree that the benefits outweigh the risks, for those that meet the criteria.

We really don’t know that people are “risking their immediate life/health” though, do we? Yes, a small number of people have died due to WLI but if the claims for a huge reduction in heart attacks (for example) are found to be true, it may be that even in the short term, the benefits outweigh the risks.

And I disagree with you that no other medication involves a short term risk to produce a longer term benefit. Chemotherapy is one example, there are many others.

Yes, both premises of that post were wrong.

Are we? The potential side effects of mounjaro are no more likely or worse than other meds I've taken, some of which were more essential, some of which were not.
I can't see why I am 'hoping' for a healthier future using a medication to help with my obesity any more than I've 'hoped' for a healthier future using anticoagulants to help with blood clots.
You seem completely fixed on your mindset though so I shan't waste my time.