Do any providers under 25 bmi?

[coldcallerbaiter]

Say you are BMI 24.9 or 25.5 etc and hold weight around the middle, are there providers who ignore the over 27 BMI rule? Or do you just have to lie?

Actually Asia-Pacific BMI classifications are different, with 23 or above being considered overweight due to different typical fat distribution. I’m not an expert but as I understand it, it’s because they tend to carry more weight around the waistline which is more harmful than elsewhere. I don’t think you’d get it from an online pharmacy, but if you saw a private doctor in person there’s potentially a chance for them to prescribe off license if there is a concerning volume of fat around the waistline

iI've not read anything about people ending up in hospital because they took mounjaro at a weight slightly under recommended BMI.

That's not relevant.

People don't end up in hospital because their BMI was low and it interacted with WLIs. They end up in hospital because they were on WLIs, regardless of BMI. When someone's starting BMI is above 30, the risks from staying obese outweigh the risks of WLIs. The WLI risks don't change with BMI, the health risks associated with body weight do. Tell me that you don't understand risk-benefit analysis without telling me...

I've seen no evidence that taking mounjaro at a reduced BMI is taking hospital resources away from others.

Some of the people worldwide who have ended up in hospital from WLIs will be people who lied or found an unscrupulous prescriber and so shouldn't have been on WLIs because of their low starting BMI. These people will have occupied beds, taken up doctor time, and otherwise consumed resources that someone else could have used.

Boots ask for your ethnic background for this very reason.

We don't let 16 year olds drive. We let 17 year olds drive. It's only one year. Hell, we don't let someone drive one day before their 17th birthday. That's only one day.

Some things, you have to pick a number based on risk assessment of a large number of people to decide what's a reasonable cut-off. Voting age, driving age, and minimum BMI for starting WLIs are all examples of this.

Because being obese changes your body permanently, which is why formerly-obese people will regain the weight over 95% of the time.

Why do people get angry when other people place themself at risk. It's up to them.

If someone drives down a 30mph road at 4am, so no one else around to get run over, doing 40mph, should they be able to argue that "it's up to them" when they get snapped by a speed camera?

If they prang their car into a bus shelter, they end up in hospital, the bus shelter can't be used, and their family are affected. They don't get to run the risk of doing that by doing 40 in a 30 when a lawfully-appointed competent authority has decided that the maximum safe speed for that road is 30.

WLIs are no different.

OMG how many times have people on this thread explained that becoming obese alters how your body responds to food for life?

I was obese. I got back into “overweight” by traditional methods. It was a hard slog. I’ve got a stone to go to get to a healthy weight and I just cannot do it. But now I don’t qualify for wld.

have thought about just giving up and regaining the weight. Or lying. Which would be less risky? Probably lying.

it’s really affecting my MH now. I lost the bulk of the weight 3 years ago and have lost and regained the same half stone/stone since.

It's good to read a post like yours. I hate the pile-on (under the guise of 'concerned observer' obv) that posters get when they ask a question like this. People falling over themselves to say what a bloody idiot the OP is etc., for asking stupid questions. Which is, of course, why boards like this exist - to ask questions.

A bit of understanding and kindness goes a long way. Many people on these boards seem to forget those basics when someone dares to ask about MJ on a lower BMI.

I rarely believe that the 'terse' responses are because those posters are desperately concerned about a stranger's safety: it's gatekeeping and it's judgemental, and I think we should all aim to do better.

I rarely believe that the 'terse' responses are because those posters are desperately concerned about a stranger's safety: it's gatekeeping

The MHRA gatekeep these injections for a reason: they come with risks.

It's not my fault that a proportion of posters either can't or don't want to understand risk-benefit analyses. I don't think I can explain the concept any more clearly than I have done.

I have migraine with aura, which contraindicates the Pill, no exceptions, because the risks of strokes and blood clots exceed the risks associated with pregnancy for women who have migraine with aura. I don't get to insist on taking the Pill and, if I came on here saying that I was going to lie to a private prescriber and claim not to have migraine to get the Pill, people would rightly tell me not to be so stupid. WLIs are no different.

There's a huge arrogance in assuming that you know better than the MHRA and I'm not unreasonable in being angered by that. The "understanding abd kindness" you demand won't save someone's life from pancreatitis.

We wouldn't show "understanding and kindness" for someone who thought that speeding or drink-driving was OK.

I sympathise. Nonetheless, right now you are out of the high-risk category of being obese and are able to stay that way.

Your reply is nothing to do with what my post is about.

I suggested that people don't behave like arseholes when dispensing advice. It's possible to give good, helpful, accurate advice without the pile-on and telling people that they're stupid.

I'm autistic so take it as a given that if someone's complaining about tone, it's aimed at me.

Less than 1% of obese people will get back to a healthy weight.

It surely has to be the addiction with the worst relapse rate out of any addiction...even crystal meth etc.

If less than 1% of crystal meth users could avoid relapsing and becoming addicted again then I doubt anyone would tell them to take their chances (if there was treatment available that could turn the addiction off) when they were struggling.

I don’t think MJ will ever be available for the wider public.

The risk of slim people taking this in an unregulated manner could be concerning; I assume it’s more likely that if someone with a healthy BMI started unnecessarily taking it, they may be more susceptible to becoming underweight or malnourished. Obese people tend to have higher TDEE, so appetite suppressants may allow them to consume a reasonable amount of food. Whereas someone my height who is slim would have a TDEE of 1200 calories, so combined with appetite suppressants like weight loss injections, they may struggle to get proper nutrition in.

I think it just goes to show how aspirational being slim is for many people. how desperate they are to be slim.

For someone of a healthy weight to look at a serious prescribed med that enables obese people or those with weight related health complications, to slim to a healthy weight, and want to get it, to take it illegally, to lie, or risk taking fakes, just to lose a small amount of weight and risk their health, their lives to do it, is shocking. Especially when you consider many are women, and often mothers.

ive lost count of the amount of times ive seen the “but i dont understand, why is there a cut off, why can you still take it when you get to a healthy weight and I can’t, i want it’ cries,as well as the whole bingo card of nonsense about the drugs, just shows how utterly fucked up some people have become about weight. Their weight, others weight.

these drugs have shone a spotlight on just how messed up and desperate some people are.

I think it shows how desperate and messed up diet culture is, and how hard it is to escape.

Another thread on here asks people at what weight they feel slim. Nearly every response says 'at a lower weight than I am now' regardless of what they actually weigh. So many women at a healthy BMI almost universally saying 'I need to lose half a stone to a stone to feel OK about myself'. Even those on that thread who concede they don't need to lose weight denigrate their bodies another way 'oh my weight is fine but I'm so jiggly and wobbly anyway'. Almost no one thinks their normal, healthy, human body is acceptable and it's so sad and such an indictment on the culture we live in and the influence of the diet industries and beauty standards that make everyone feel they just aren't good enough.

It's why the discourse around the jabs gets so emotionally charged. People who take it legitimately receive enormous judgement and censure, so do people taking it without meeting the criteria. It's a life changing drug that can give people back their lives, but I wish that all of us could break free and view our bodies with clear eyes and compassion so that we could see this drug as a health intervention and not the key to a self-acceptance that probably none of us will ever reach with or without it.

I don’t disagree with you and to be honest think it’s one and the same thing, simply diet culture is the macro view, the individual is the micro one.

i can hand on heart say that if I was a healthy weight I’d not consider taking a prescribed drug illegally. And I do not think I know anyone who would. But I’ve never ever been so fucked uo about my weight and body that I’d resort to something like this.

hence why it’s fine to take the macro view but it isn’t every woman, in fact far from it. Most don’t even know about the drugs fully or where to get them, never mind being a healthy weight and wanting to take them against prescription guidelines or risk fakes.

i mean that’s bloody desperate.

@coldcallerbaiter Suggest your friend tries orlistat. It is supposed to target visceral fat. WLI do not.

Orlistat just makes you shit yourself. She’d only suggest that if she hates her friend, and nothing specifically targets visceral fat. Fat is fat. Edit, fat is fat when it comes to loss on these tools

And what do you think the side effects of WLI include? Orlistat prevents fat absorption, don't want to expel horrible orange oily shit then keep fat consumption down, just like on WLIs.

But doesn't that assume that no one with a BMI of under 25 has never been overweight? Surely that can't be the case.

If it is then your historic weight pattern becomes more important than current weight surely? So someone just nudging into obese for the first time would benefit less than a serial dieter just under?

BMI seems a very simplistic way to do this and it worries me this is pretty much the only factor in prescribing. Feels very open to manipulation.

Which deaths are these?

Actually, the manufacturer is close to starting trials for lower BMIs and using it as a preventative. It isn’t available yet for lower BMIs because the trials haven’t taken place yet. It isn’t because the risk outweighs the benefits, despite what people on these threads rush to assert.

This is why it would be good to test GLP1 levels like we do for thyroid levels.

In my 20s I could stay in the overweight category by running to the point I felt sick. It dampened the food noise but didn't get rid of it. I'm far from the only one who has tried to outrun a bad diet. But life ( work stress, a couple of pregnancies and the beginning of arthritis in my knees) made doing that alot harder/ impossible so the weight piled on.

I was obese in my teens so I assume I have depleted GLP as is commonly seen in obesity. However I am not certain that some people may have a GLP1 defincy and may still be either overweight or even normal BMI but manage it in other ways - like excessive exercise. In those cases I think the drug should be prescribed they just need to find a reliable way to test GLP1 levels.