Do any providers under 25 bmi?

[coldcallerbaiter]

Say you are BMI 24.9 or 25.5 etc and hold weight around the middle, are there providers who ignore the over 27 BMI rule? Or do you just have to lie?

The poster, factually is wrong.

@Mifiee because I talked about starting it with a BMI of 27 (with appropriate conditions) or over 30. Once you start, the guidelines are very clear that you can continue on it until you reach an healthy BMI. Prescribers can vary as to what they think is an acceptable BMI. Of course people can continue to take it whilst they get to a healthy BMI otherwise the entire goal and point of taking it wouldn't be achieved.

When you started and your BMI was 27, did you have a weight related health condition or meet the ethnicity requirement?

Because a body that has been obese and a body that has never been obese act in different ways at the same weight. Plus it makes sense to aim for patients to settle nearer the middle of the healthy range than to cut someone off off when literally a pound gain would wee them back to overweight.
Anyone who's so desperate to take WLI is welcome to become obese first. Personally it's knowing my weight got so bad it was statistically likely to shorten my life that was my favourite part, but you might find it's the judgement you get as a lazy fatty, not being able to do up your shoes or needing seatbelt expanders. But then you too could be one of the lucky ones paying £150/ month for medication that could give you pancreatitis.

Again, take that up with the prescribers who have done the rigorous risk vs benefit analysis.

I was 42 BMI when I started my weightloss journey and around 27BMI when I started MJ.
I had a secondary weight related issue, yes.

I don't have an issue with the prescribers. I have an issue with people who get angry with other people who bend the rules or lie because they r desperate and have risk assessed their own situation and decided to take a risk that others may not. It's not anger they need and it serves no purpose.

Why do people get angry when other people place themself at risk. It's up to them. If someone is under the BMI by half a stone and decides to bump up their weight by half a stone on the online form to get mounjaro, why get angry with them? It's their decision and their risk. Probably safer and more sensible to lie than to eat a few extra chippies in a short space of time to reach the cut off.

Quite a few private doctors will prescribe it, ditto other specialists for reasons that have little to do with obesity and/or diabetes. They don't have to inform your GP either.

I used it to lose weight after cancer treatments as the steroids made me pile on weight, chemo pushed me into menopause and no amount of diet and exercise would get it off. The jabs were marvellous, and something I had discussed with part of my medical team due them being beneficial to keeping breast cancer at bay. Why? Because even though my ovaries no longer produce oestrogen, my fat cells will, particularly those around my middle section. As someone with a hormone-fed cancer, it's essential I keep my weight down. There's research in the US about how micro-dosing for those who need to keep weight off long term. There's also talk about how long term use of the drug can help prevent dementia, addictions and all manner. of things.

I think you're ascribing anger when people are directly and perhaps tersely stating the correct prescribing criteria, and correctly stating that no one should be lying to prescribers in order to acquire prescription meds they don't need.

Then I think people move into incredulity and impatience at people who haven't even done any basic research into it. Anger? Not so much.

@BobbingAlongAgain Guess what? Mounjaro doesn't stop the food noise for everyone. I know several people who haven't stopped the food noise they just don't feel hungry all the time so it's more manageable to allow them to plan what they are eating but it doesn't stop them thinking about food all the time. Someone with a history of eating disorders is more likely to have further eating disorders, weight loss clinics won't even assist until you have psychology assessments.

Your "friend" could try the supported NHS weight loss rather than lie to get diabetic medication.

People can be obese and not have 'obesity'. Well that's the way it's assessed in Ireland anyway. It doesn't just go on BMI here. Well not sure what way it works in practice, but that's the official guidelines.

And then people can be skinny fat...'metabolically obese normal weight'.

So it's not quite as simple as saying obese people have the disease, but non obese (going by BMI) don't.

In my opinion, people get angry at those lying and putting themselves at risk because it jeopardises the ability of those who genuinely qualify for the medication of accessing it. We’ve all seen the news articles about people obtaining it illegally having adverse reactions etc. That has an impact.
I don’t give a shit if someone lies to obtain the medication and risks their own health. I do give a shit that that may prevent someone genuinely in need from accessing the medication that is licensed for them.

Well that's absolutely fair enough and justified anger I guess. Gough I didn't know there was a shortage of mounjaro. I had heard a few months back of a shortage of ozempic.

There is no shortage of mounjaro, just another nonsense post.

Nothing to do with shortages. It’s to do with the fact that all the publicity about people causing themselves health issues through taking the medication illegally has led to prescription guidelines being tightened, with talk of them being further tightened in future.
People taking it illegally absolutely has an impact on those wanting to take it legally.

Formerly-obese people are allowed to carry on taking it because they are likely to relapse and become obese again if they stop taking it. The risks associated with relapse outweigh the risks of taking it.

Medical prescribing rules are about balancing risks.

Especially in the case of my friend who is (or was, before mounjaro) tormented by food noise and a life long battle with her weight(?)

A battle that she was winning, albeit with considerable struggle. Not a battle that she was losing and had no chance of winning. She was miserable with the food noise but she wasn't at risk of the health problems associated with obesity. The jabs aren't to make you happy.

Why do people get angry when other people place themself at risk. It's up to them. If someone is under the BMI by half a stone and decides to bump up their weight by half a stone on the online form to get mounjaro, why get angry with them? It's their decision and their risk.

Because when they end up in hospital as a direct consequence of their decision to lie to obtain a prescription medication, they consume health care resources that someone else, who didn't lie, now cannot use.

But if they can make you happy, (or more accurately, less tormented and less exhausted by endless mins battles), then I understand why people want to take them, especially if they work

And how.often has this happened? The only cases I've seen of people ending up in hospital have been when they've bought dodgy stuff.off Facebook etc.. I am not aware of anyone slightly under the eligible BMi, who was prescribed by an online pharmacy.(Because they bumped their weight up a bit on the form) ending up in hospital as a direct result of taking mounjaro at a slightly reduced BMI. I just don't think it's a thing..

In fact I've not read anything about anyone experiencing dangerous illness or side effects because they took mounjaro at a lower BMI than recommended.

No. At the lower weight, the risk-benefit analysis doesn't justify taking it. When someone abuses a drug, it doesn't just affect them but also it adds a burden to the healthcare system and risks bereaving their family, meaning that the would-be abuser of the drug doesn't have the right to overturn that risk-benefit analysis.

It's like how a road can have a speed limit of 30mph. Someone in the local council assessed that road and decided that, considering pavements and shops and nearby housing and other factors, 30mph is the safest speed to drive down that road. The benefits of driving faster are outweighed by the risks of doing so, to the driver and other road users. You might disagree and think that you'd be safe doing 40mph, but it's not your decision to make.

18 people have died in the UK in the last four years. They were all on genuine WLIs.

There's health risks associated with WLIs, including death, and the actual doctors who do these assessments for a living have decided that the risks outweigh the benefits belowthis a certain BMI. That's their literal job that they are qualified to do.

To be clear: there's no evidence to suggest that WLIs become more dangerous below a certain BMI. It's that the risks of being on them outweigh the risks of being BMI 26 if BMI 26 is your starting point. Whereas if you were BMI 36, the risks of being that obese are so great that they outweigh the risks of WLIs.

My point was iI've not read anything about people ending up in hospital because they took mounjaro at a weight slightly under recommended BMI. I've seen no evidence that taking mounjaro at a reduced BMI is taking hospital resources away from others. I just don't think it's a thing.

Won't those on the borderline be better off giving in and eating more for a few weeks and then qualifying.

Then they can continue to take it to get down to a BMI of 21 no bother and then stay on it for life.

Because I can't really make sense of that.

Surely once you reach a BMI of 25 you should come off it because according to the argument that if you aren't obese dieting and exercise will fix it you can do it that way? Not saying I believe that just that it's the conclusion of the argument because you have altered your insulin resistance by getting back into the healthy weight zone.

Absolutely

It is not me! I am a size 12. Plus I hate injections, didn’t even want b12 ones when I needed them.

I will definitely feedback the point about the risk/benefit ratio, I did not know much about this medication.

I know friends that have adjusted their stats to be in the 30 or over BMI, but these are people that were very nearly there anyway (ie were 29 point something).

To want to get it with a perfectly healthy BMI of 25 or under seems nuts.