Non-vegan who believe themselves to be animal lovers

[Milake]

How do they ignore the obvious hypocrisy?
How do they live with the cognitive dissonance?

I am almost jealous of their ability to live in such a state that allows them to detach themselves from the reality of the consequences of their choices.

Omg this is brilliant 😆. I also didn't realise I was on the vegan board! 🤷‍♀️.
I don't eat meat but I'm not vegan. Unfortunately I have very serious health issues and live on a fortified liquid diet. I absolutely agree with all the points vegans make. I have to admit hypocrisy to some extent.

@Lesina injecting chickens with chemicals so they lay 300 eggs a year instead of the 12 a year they were meant to and suffer health problems, keeping animals in tiny cages their whole entire lives, making animals so fat they can't stand, transporting animals around in lorries terrified, using gas chambers... no, this is not what 'evolution' looks like. There is nothing natural about it.

Well of course, because the animals being subjected to all of those things that non vegans are apparently ok with because “canines” or something equally banal do not have a voice. If someone was putting a captive bolt through the head of a healthy young dog then I doubt many would object to the “attitude” of someone trying to at a very minimum encourage them not to do that. If something is unethical then it’s reasonable to stand up against that. In any event though this is the vegan board so not a place we are really expecting to change the minds of non vegans, but a place to at least discuss ideas and concepts of cognitive dissonance that leads to a perpetuation of all of the practices I mentioned above.

We have already established that veganism is as far as possible and can be deviated from for health reasons.
So if you are eating meat for health purposes then I think it's fine to still call yourself vegan.

... if you are eating meat for health purposes then I think it's fine to still call yourself vegan ...

😱 words fail me.

If you are eating a liquid diet and no plant based liquid exists as a PP is then I can see an argument for this. However PP who thinks you need animal products to “glow”, no I don’t think they can call themselves a vegan, not unless they have seen a vegan-supportive registered dietician who to assess if they are covering all the nutrients they need from plants first. For example a B12 deficiency could “take its toll” but doesn’t require killing animals to resolve.

And since PP was being anecdotal, I know loads of long term vegans who are very healthy, energetic, had healthy pregnancies, are raising healthy children on a plant based diet, my brother has never had meat and is over 6ft, my dad has been vegan for a decade and veggie for decades before that and runs marathons in his mid 60s. It is important to be aware of nutrients though as what you do eat is much more important than what you don’t, you could call yourself vegan and only eat bananas and chips.

@kitsuneghost 😆 I don’t think you quite understand what being a vegan is!

If more of the population were vegan, then of course there would be more land available. Didn’t Sir David explain this? About how we could re-wild large parts of the world if most of the population adopted a plant based diet? Although I do appreciate not everyone is able to.

Research suggests that if everyone shifted to a plant-based diet we would reduce global land use for agriculture by 75%.

To the person who said about mono crops - aren’t all plants grown on a large scale a mono crop? Even an orchard of apple trees?

I know a typical argument against veganism is about the amount of soy grown for vegans. When in actual fact - 80% of soy is grown for animal feed.

I am vegan because I decided I didn't want to contribute to animal cruelty in as many ways possible. I try my best, that’s all I can do.

It's not a diet, fad or a cult, it doesn't surround eating imported avocados or expensive mock meat like the social media portrays, but an ethical stand to not support animal exploitation - for my food, clothing or accessories, or for entertainment.

I can eat plant-based food for the rest of my life, wear clothing not made from animal skin or fur, not ride animals, not pay to watch animals being enslaved entertainers, not buy animals like a commodity, use products that haven't been tested on animals, and value lives of animals as much as I value humans. I am aware that no animal needs to suffer or die for me to live.

Of course animals have emotion and feel pain. Why do so many people who work in abattoirs suffer from mental health issues and go on to adopting a vegan diet? Because they have first hand experience. There is a reason abattoirs don’t have glass walls.

I am not a vegan but there was a recent thread where posters were lambasting someone for having vacuumed up a bee because she was worried about stinging her cat. Calling her cruel etc. I found it quite odd when they were all happy to go home and eat meat, eggs, and dairy products from animals that suffer far more than a bee in a hoover.

I don't think it's "sneering", I think it's a valid question and one I've been thinking about myself recently coincidentally and now just come across this thread (I'm not vegan or even vegetarian)
It does seem weird when you sit and think about it how we can happily eat some animals but kill and eat others.

I'm late to this thread.
I've thought about this loads. I am a vegan, and an animal lover.
But, I wasn't always a vegan. I've always been an animal lover. I think, pre-vegan, I really was very ignorant about the horrors of the dairy industry. I'm spite of growing up in a rural area, and being a farmer's granddaughter. I was a vegetarian from a very early age, as that's more obvious.
I do know meat eaters who say they love animals. I assume they are able to compartmentalise, and cast it to the back of their mind.
The justified outrage of the terrible incident in Surrey, when a calf was rammed by a police car, proves that most people do hate animal cruelty, but they still eat animals who've been cruelly treated. Ignorance mostly...

I am an animal lover but also eat meat. I also buy my meat from a local small holder who raises her animals ethically

You can be both

Q: How do they ignore the obvious hypocrisy?
A: Don't ignore it. Just OK with it.

Q: How do they live with the cognitive dissonance?
A: Being an adult involves having two opposing thoughts on many issues. Farmers often love the animals they rear for slaughter.

Genuine question but why are so many meat eaters here on a vegan chat post ?

Omnivores would see the thread in active.

@Foxlover46 "Genuine question but why are so many meat eaters here on a vegan chat post ?"

I'm interested in the politics and philosophy of food and food distribution. I enjoy vegan cooking. I like hearing other people's views on important issues. I have vegan friends and family members.

Do you think only vegans should be allowed to be on vegan chats?

It'a a goady title in active

Not sure about the generic 'animal lovers' term but what I find bizarre and a bit repulsive is how increasing numbers of people conceive of one category of animal- household pets - in increasingly ludicrous and anthropogenic ways while merrily continuing to consume other categories of animal with zero thought to their welfare, how they lived or died etc. In some cases there is no trouble people wouldn't go to, no money they wouldn't spend, no gimmick they wouldn't buy for a singular dog or cat, but wouldn't even bother trying to buy higher welfare meat cause 'it's so expensive'. It is a bizarre gap, almost unprecedented in human history, never has one category of animal been so revered and monetised, while simultaneously having such a small proportion of people with any meaningful connection to or regard to the entire rest of the animal kingdom.

Yes, when people say the English are a nation of animal lovers, they really mean pet lovers I think.
I'm a vegan, oppose animal cruelty and exploitation. That means all animals, not just dogs and cats. Though I love those too of course.

@theleafandnotthetree I think you can be an advocate for animal welfare (food, wild & pets) and still eat food produced from animals.
What I personally don't like is the detachment from the food source in general here in the UK.
Do you know where your vegetables & pulses come from? How they were produced and where they were packaged?
I know to a little farm shop that raises their own animals and they can slaughter on site. You can see the animals, say hello... the pigs have brushes outside their pen so you can rub their backs- which they seem to like.

I can also tell you there is a huge difference in the taste and quality of their products to a supermarket.

I think most people in the UK would be upset about the set up... so I have to be content with an organic & local products shop not to far away from me.

It would be a pointless thread to be asking about what omnivores thought or believed if it were only vegans talking amongst themselves about what they think or believe other people thought and believed, really - no more appropriate than a bunch of white/Christian/English people discussing what black/Muslim/French people think about something (and then complaining if somebody black/Muslim/French were to post to say that actually, they're wrong on the grounds that 'we know what you think more than you do and we don't want to hear from anybody black/Muslim/French in any case').

I’d rather like a flick of sheep!

Amazing how people justify it, isnt it?
'well, the animals are raised ethically, the farmer gives them cuddles and they live on a lovely farm.....before they are killed and eaten!'.
If you dont need to kill and eat someone then it can never be ethical and you are talking maybe less then 1% of the population who have a diet so medically specific that vegan options arent available.

I tend to correct people and tell them they are a pet lover or a dog lover, not an animal lover!

Amazing how some vegans don't want other people making choices that improve animal welfare. It's all or nothing. With that attitude you'll only push people to stop bothering at all.

I’m a vegetarian and I hate pretty much hate all animals? It works both ways

Many vegans think they are on a moral high ground when it comes to animal welfare....
Problem is, they conviniemtly forget that honey bees and some bumble bees are closely linked to fruit and vegetable production. They are flown across the globe to pollinate our crops.... how's that not an animal welfare & environmental concern?