Hosting and warning non-vegans

[veganhost]

We are just about to move into a big enough home in a desirable area where it’ll be easy to have people stay overnight. We are looking forward to welcoming visitors, including on a ’hotel style’ basis, ie feel free to crash at ours but do what you want otherwise.

Now, since we’ve welcomed quite a few people to come and stay, not everyone is super aware of our belief and I feel that we need to warn people that we do not want any non-vegan food in our home. Some vegans don’t have any issues with this, but we do, and won’t change our minds. We are really not interested in discussing this or ’negotiating’, so to speak. I feel that we need to warn people about this so that they know before they come (and if they don’t want to come if they can’t have cow’s milk with their cereal eg, ok!).

How do we do this in the best way? I’ve thought of just mentioning it casually in an e-mail – is it then better as soon as a visit is discussed, or once dates have been set? Any suggestions on how to word this in a friendly but firm way would be much appreciated! I don’t really want to explain it, just state it, to avoid the risk of being told that we’re silly eg, but maybe a casual mention won't be noticed…

I wonder if any other vegan has personal experience of a similar situation, or if any non-vegan have a view on what they think. Any suggestions on how to best convey this in a nice but ’final’ way would be welcome!

Thanks for any thoughts 😊

@WonderingWanda that argument of the situation being in reverse doesn't work because meat eaters don't ONLY eat non-vegan food. My husband is a meat eater but sometimes has soup that just so happens to be vegan and an apple or whatever. So it's not the same thing.

I'd say it's different in that medicines are sometimes unavoidable. Presumably the meal plan in this instance has some flexibility when it comes to what to eat/when to eat, and she could have a small thing/nothing at home and get something more substantial on the way to the station? If it were a medical meal plan that prescribed only home cooked meals at x time that included dairy/meat, then it would be difficult I think, and it might be difficult to leave home at all. Like you say, it's unlikely that this will crop up (or any of the other suggestions with children with ARFID etc).

Still interesting to see that some people would find it so jarring not to eat meat/dairy for, say, two breakfasts, for example, that they wouldn't to stay. Obviously their choice, it's just a new thought to me to be.

It’s so weird that people are trying to catch OP out with ‘what about this’ or ‘what about that’. Veganism does seem to trigger some people.😅

This!

OP is handling them superbly though. 👏 🌱

Still interesting to see that some people would find it so jarring not to eat meat/dairy for, say, two breakfasts, for example, that they wouldn't to stay.

That surprised me, and I’m an omnivore. I quite often have breakfasts that don’t contain meat / dairy / eggs - actually I would say I have vegan breakfasts more often than not.

No, certain foods have to be eaten at specific times, including 3 potions of dairy daily. So for example her breakfast had to be eaten at a specific time and include cereal with cow’s milk. A yogurt happens after lunch at 12.00 etc. Having something small then eating later wouldn’t work as timings, nutritional content and calorie content at each time are important.

The vegans I know in ED treatment have eaten the dairy temporarily whilst refeeding as it was unavoidable.

You’re right, it can be difficult to leave home and wasn’t really possible at first but after a while, we take DD’s food with us / plan to eat somewhere where we can find the food she needs.

I think it’s unlikely that will be an issue for you though and I definitely don’t think your request is unreasonable! I do think sensory sensitivities and ARFID type issues with food are more common, they’re very common in our social circles but that could be because we’re all autistic!

Actually it’s an interesting question.

My first reaction was ‘ofc, not an issue. You just need to let people know when you organise for them to stay over’.
And then I thought about my own life, diet etc… and I think I’d struggle.

Why? Im gluten and dairy free to start with.
I also have blood glucose regulation issues and MCAS (histamine problem).
I struggled to find a way to have breakfast that allows me to feel well. And the best fur me is a b’fast with protein in (eggs or fish. Tried chickpeas etc… it doesn’t cut it).
I try to avoid ‘eating out’ because let’s be honest dairy and gluten options are usually far in between and crap. Again, unsure about what I’d be able to prepare to take with me when out and about if I only had access to vegan foods etc…

Now I could tell you that due to my (diagnosed) illness, I need to do all of the above. And maybe this would be ok with you (or maybe not!).
But I’m thinking about the many years before I was finally diagnosed when I did a lot of the above (because I felt better) but couldn't explain why….

So yes…
If i was really close to you. I’d go with your rules. But I would also pay a price for it. And might not see you as often.
If it wasn’t about coming to see you, I couldn’t go with the arrangement.

Just be clear when you invite people. It might be an issue for some - people who have particular dietary restrictions, allergies, small children maybe, someone mentioned formula milk for example which there would be no workaround for - but those people will either have to not stay or figure out a solution. What could cause problems would be not to prepare anyone, but if you let guests know in advance then it doesn’t seem to be an issue?

I always have to coordinate carefully before staying with anyone because of severe allergies, so I'm used to having detailed food related conversations and planning things out! If you're a household with a lot of nuts in your diet, I wouldn't be able to come anyway. I find that increasingly people are aware of and understanding regarding dietary requirements.

I would be glad of you being upfront before we arrived/ planned to stay, as it would mean we could reconsider. I don't take food with me to be rude, but quite the opposite- we have many allergies and sensory issues between 5 of us, including arfid, so whenever we go visit people I take allergy and sensory friendly foods so that everyone has a "safe" option. It wouldnt have occured to me that taking a safe emergency food might be a problem- I usually have things like pepperamis, babybel, gluten free breads (which often contain egg), cans of soup, tins of tuna and sweetcorn, supernoodles, bottles of mustard-free mayo and ketchup etc in my bag when we go anywhere to be polite to my hosts and not expect them to feed everyone according to their allergies etc as that can get convoluted and expensive! So it would be very handy to know this wasnt an option in your house.

I’m not vegan or vegetarian, if I was staying with you I’d assume no non vegan food and drink were allowed in your house but definitely mention it ‘just so you know we don’t have any non vegan food or drink in the house so let me know what milk alternative you prefer and please make sure you don’t have anything non vegan with you’.

I am really laughing at all the desperate dan posters who apparently don’t eat anything vegan and seem to exist on cow pies alone 😂

Vegan food is just food and while I don’t eat the meat alternative things like the sausages and burgers, I really like a lot of vegan and vegetarian foods and meals so I naturally eat vegan or vegetarian quite a lot of the time anyway.

Tbh I agree with you on both counts.

I've had conversations with my own dc’s about having vegan or vegetarian meals and pointed out that they are very happy to eat meals like that as long as it’s not ‘labelled’ vegetarian/vegan.
And i think many people do that.

It doesn’t change the fact that for SOME people, it would be too much. Even for two days. It’s not trying to catch the OP. But more acknowledging that there is some privilege behind being able to freely chose your diet iyswim.

Oh, and when people stay with me I obviously let them know we're a nut free house. No one can bring nuts in, in any form - no nut milk, nut butters, boxes of chocolates containing praline etc - and if that was a sticking point for anyone then they wouldn't be coming in the house. It has never been a problem!

What would you say to the parent of a baby wishing to bring formula milk with them?

A meat/dairy sub is a processed alternative to meat/dairy.
so fake meat, oat/soya milk non-dairy spread.

as I said I happily cook for people who are vegan, I just use proper foods, so wouldn’t add non-dairy cheese to a nut roast for example. I’d just leave it out.

I actually wouldn’t have an issue with a guest being a non-dairy sub into my house as long as they don’t want me or the kids to eat it, but I would draw the line at fake meat.

Yes, vegan children end up on average 3cm smaller than their peers

https://www.unisa.edu.au/unisanews/2021/july/story3#

if you want the actual study, scroll down and it’s listed at the bottom.

Some people are definitely trying to catch OP out.

Her rules seem simple to me. No non vegan food/drink. Whether that’s because you have a legume allergy or you’re a grumpy fucker without having cows milk in your coffee at 7am on the dot. No non vegan food/drink means just that. But, but...what about....NOPE!

I have to say that I don't think wanting an open house and people to stay frequently is compatible with dictating food consumption in the house.

I get that you disagree with milk. How is it different if a guest goes to starbucks and drinks a coffee with milk, compared with if that guest goes to starbucks and brings that same cup of coffee to your house to drink it. It's opaque, you can't see the milk, and you don't even know if they put oat milk or whatever in it.

Personally, yes it would stop me from staying. I hate the taste of oat milk and would prefer to tip away tea with oat milk in it, than to drink it - and I have done this. It's just irritating and I don't go away from home to be irritated and to put in work to abide by someone else's beliefs and wishes. I go to be free and enjoy myself.

That’s not the same as not growing! 🤣 For vegans, their children grow to the height they do, eating the diet they feel is right.

@bakewellbride I am probably not making my point clearly enough. If I had a vegan friend over I wouldn't put a steak on a plate and expect them to eat it, I would Tey to accommodate their preferences and whilst I wouldn't expect them to go out and buy me dairy milk for example (even though I go our and buy non dairy products especially for my vegan friend) I really don't understand why on earth I can't bring my own dairy milk to their house. As I said it's not very welcoming.

Yes, I wasn’t trying to catch the op out at all and I think the request is completely reasonable. I was just interested in how she would view the ethical ‘grey area’ of food needed for medical reasons.

The issue there is not the fact the fake crap is vegan but rather that it is UPF. I'm in full agreement with you on UPFs. I hate that so many restaurants and caterers are providing fake meat as a veggie option.

Presumably you would also object to meat based UPFS?

The ops goal isn’t to be welcoming to people who want to bring meat or dairy into her house though. Her goal is to live in a way she has deemed to be ethical and to be welcoming to the people who are respectful of that view in her own home.

really don't understand why on earth I can't bring my own dairy milk to their house. As I said it's not very welcoming.

It’s not that difficult. If someone has an ethical or religious objection to a food or drink then you don’t bring it into their home, unless they specify that they’re fine with you doing so.

Most Non vegans can eat vegan foods(fruits, vegetables, dried pasta,rice, most bread etc) and do not have an ethical objection to having them in their homes or consuming them.

Raising flags here OP
We are wealthy
We have a big house
We have lots of friends who want to stay
We are vegans

How fucking marvellous for you