Hosting and warning non-vegans

[veganhost]

We are just about to move into a big enough home in a desirable area where it’ll be easy to have people stay overnight. We are looking forward to welcoming visitors, including on a ’hotel style’ basis, ie feel free to crash at ours but do what you want otherwise.

Now, since we’ve welcomed quite a few people to come and stay, not everyone is super aware of our belief and I feel that we need to warn people that we do not want any non-vegan food in our home. Some vegans don’t have any issues with this, but we do, and won’t change our minds. We are really not interested in discussing this or ’negotiating’, so to speak. I feel that we need to warn people about this so that they know before they come (and if they don’t want to come if they can’t have cow’s milk with their cereal eg, ok!).

How do we do this in the best way? I’ve thought of just mentioning it casually in an e-mail – is it then better as soon as a visit is discussed, or once dates have been set? Any suggestions on how to word this in a friendly but firm way would be much appreciated! I don’t really want to explain it, just state it, to avoid the risk of being told that we’re silly eg, but maybe a casual mention won't be noticed…

I wonder if any other vegan has personal experience of a similar situation, or if any non-vegan have a view on what they think. Any suggestions on how to best convey this in a nice but ’final’ way would be welcome!

Thanks for any thoughts 😊

Wtf?! 😄

Good job that's not happening then.

I’m wasn’t arguing for the logic or morality of religion. I was just commenting on the fact that pps had brought up the comparison of veganism with religious observance.

Billions of people around the world, members of the bigger and smaller faiths, and many sub-sets of them, live their lives - births, deaths, marriages, codes of behaviour, daily and other routine, worship etc. etc. - because that is what religion has always provided. Rightly or wrongly. I make no case for religion being a good thing.

But whether religion is good, bad or meh, it directs the course of people’s lives and of whole societies. Religion has generated great music, literature and philosophy.

Buying Linda McCartney vegan burgers does not do any of these things.

The comparison is, frankly, stupid.

What?

I would just mention when you do the first casual open invitation when you're chatting. "You're welcome to come stay with us any time if you fancy a trip to London. Even if you're coming for something else and just want a place to crash... The only thing is we are a vegan household so we prefer not to let any animal products in the house. There are some great cafes nearby that you can go to if you get a cows milk craving though!"

Any die hard non-vegans should remember, as they'll probably think it's weird and OTT (not that I agree with them).

Then worth a little reminder when you're actually making firm arrangements

Just wondering when you say don't bring dog poo in, are you someone who insists on visitors removing shoes? The general opinion on MN seems to be that any shoe that is even shown the ourdoors is instantly covered in dog poo.

Personally, I wear shoes indoors but if I went to a house where the hosts asked me to take them off, I would even though I'm not particularly comfortable without them on.

Obviously you are perfectly within your rights to avoid staying someone where animal products aren't allowed. But your liking for meat is a preference, not an ethical imperative. No one has to cater to your preferences. Of course there are vegan foods you can eat. We all eat vegan foods all the time: bread, baked beans, crisps, (some) sweets, rice noodles, vegetables, fruits, mashed potatoes, pasta, rice, veg curry etc.

You wouldn't take a bacon sandwich into a kosher home. (I hope.)

(I'm not a vegan.)

@OchonAgusOchonOh
Not really relevant but No. We take our shoes off in the hallway but I don't mind if people keep them on if they are reasonably clean- my mum does sometimes. I meant don't deliberately do it as it's unhygienic.
I was just responding to the comment that everyone has things they don't allow in their house

I'll be completely honest. I'm not vegan, my first thought was, what the actual peep peep? But thi king about it a bit and not just going with my gut reaction, I feel like I understand not having meat in the house on a basis of principle or if it grosses you out. I'm trying to think of something that I might ban from my house . We have young children and try to eat quite healthy. We're not perfect but never buy chips or crisps or sweets or chocolate. Say a family with DC came to stay and had loads of this junk food, it would be hard to get my children to not eat it. So I would be irritated. Tbh I don't think I'd say something, it would be for a day or 2 so I'd just roll my eyes and stick it out. Obv not saying junk food and veganism is the same but trying to put myself in your shoes.

We normally bring food if we stay over to contribute to meals and I probably then wouldn't bring a meat or animal dish but rather a salad. I don't think that's unfair to expect and it wouldn't bother me.
I have a slight problem with fake foods ie vegan sausage , vegan meat etc and would probably make sure I bring my kids something to eat for breakfast ie you chose to make vegan sausage and Macon. (I appreciate you said you don't do the ultra processed no one knows what it is but it's called a sausage, but lots of vegans do)
And I guess this is where it gets tricky because I really don't want my children eating that upf stuff that I don't know the ingredients. And sourdough toast with peanut butter is fine, but I don't know what you would make? And again don't like the processsed fake milk. So I wouldn't give them to my children, they'd just go without milk.
I think people who say you can't go without eggs, milk or meat for a day or two are very over the top. I mean obv we could eat whole foods without animal products for a day or two, it would be all the substitutes that would irk me.

Personally I think I would be irked by you 'policing food'. So I would think it very fair to not contribute animal products. I'd happily bring an roasted vegetable and quinoa salad. I wouldn't like it though if I had a couple of granola bars with choc chips in them in my handbag as snacks and you'd want me to through it out. Or honey'd nuts or something like that

I know people say 'stop trying to catch vegans out, are you triggered?' but it would bother me to be policed like that and then you have a leather couch (again not saying you have but some vegans do)

I don't know just as I think I would bite my tongue around people that I disagree with if they stayed a day or two, I would have thought the mature thing would be to do the same.

And I guess it does become tricky if you wanted to be so pedantic as to police what they bring into the home (ie snacks, not raw meat to cook) but then there's things like medicines, formula milk, beauty products etc.
One I'd probably be looking at things such as beauty products and be like 'is she serious?' if it wasnt vegan. And for what I bring I'd also say 'she has as problem with my honey nut oats, but I have face cream and a leather belt. Like it's not consistent.

Eggs can be too. I've stayed with an otherwise vegan community, except they have rescue chickens for eggs. I see that as more ethical than small amounts of commercial animal products in snacks.

Fair enough. Yeah, not relevant but I was just curious.

Smoking and vaping are my two no's.

I don’t recall OP stating

Someone wanting milk is beneath them and that they are inferior and so not welcome

@OchonAgusOchonOh
Yes I agree no smoking or vaping but I would classify both under dangerous

“Really looking forward to welcoming people to stay so let us know if you fancy it. Quite happy for you to stay and do your own thing, our only request is that our house stays a vegan-only zone”

If I remember correctly an employment tribunal a few years ago ruled that ethical veganism is a belief protected under the equality act. So it’s really not a stupid comparison at all.

Equating proper veganism to buying Linda McCartney burgers is rather ridiculous, really.

Vegans don't eat eggs, rescue or not .. it's been done to death..

A finding of a protected belief in employment law does not equal religion or any likeness to religion.

Of course it’s foolish to compare a personal choice not to eat honey or wear silk to religion.

This in all honesty. When I have a vegan mate round for a cuppa and a gossip I make sure I've got soya milk in for her (I won't drink it), and I provide food that's vegan. But I expect the same courtesy - I'm happy to provide my own cows milk & I wouldn't expect her to drink it or keep it in the fridge once I'm gone, but I'd expect her to allow me to drink it in my tea. Forcing me to go without my tea for a couple of hours isn't going to make a difference to the welfare of cows.
I get not wanting meat touching your plates etc. but expecting visitors to go out every time they want a decent cuppa? Sod that. I'd happily bring my own cup to drink from. I'd bring one of those mini fridges that hold a couple of cans of drink so that there's no plastic container touching your fridge. But being told it's vegan substitute milk or go out? Sorry bit extreme. It's not a religious custom that you can't break, it's choice.
And I'd need yoghurt to get my medication down. No yoghurt, no meds. No alternative.

Why is it? They are both deeply held life shaping beliefs.

The alternative would be not to stay with OP in the situation in this thread and eat your yogurt and meds at home or in a hotel.

It doesn’t equal religion, no, but something being a protected philosophical belief is close enough to religion (a philosophical belief) that it’s fair to make a comparison between them, in my opinion and the opinion of plenty of other people on the thread.

Obviously I am talking about ethical veganism, rather than people who are vegan for health or environmental reasons.

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying, I think you're attributing value to a practice simply because it's long-established, not because of any intrinsic worth or even internal consistency.

I wrote 'otherwise vegan'. Rescue eggs are more ethical than commercial animal products as ingredients in snacks was my point.

Agree.

Sure. But that’s how it works.

Societies are not inspired by an objection to eating chickens. The Mozart Requiem was not inspired by a preference for plastic shoes.