What would make a nice man from a normal, uncomplicated, middle class family choose to keep getting involved with women with so much baggage?

[BakersKitchen]

I’m talking about my DB - of course he now has baggage himself so finding someone with zero baggage is probably out of the equation!

He is recently in another relationship, following a divorce, with a woman who has complicated circumstances. The women all have children from previous relationships (this current one has two from two different fathers and has had another cohabiting partner since). The previous one was much older and her child was the product of an affair which led to the relationship breakdown.

He also has his own child with his ex wife, who also had her own child from a previous relationship and was also much older than him. He married her extremely quickly after not having known her very long at all. He is now repenting at leisure!

All the women are on low incomes, supported by UC, living in poor quality rented accommodation or social housing. DB owns his own home and I wonder if they see him as a meal ticket although the divorce has cleared him out and his LTV is now back down to about 12%.

I can’t understand it. Why doesn’t he want to meet someone without all this drama and baggage?

We are (outside of this) a very nice normal middle class family with married parents and zero drama. My other brother, cousins, and I have all married nice, professional, university educated partners with no prior children and I’m finding myself increasingly frustrated that he keeps introducing these women and their children into our family dynamic, and then out again.

I feel desperately sorry for all children involved and extremely concerned there’s going to be another pregnancy announcement soon!

What’s the psychology here? Is it wanting to feel needed? Low self esteem? The irony is he has always been so judgemental about these sorts of situations and here he is living it!

The “baggage” you refer to are actual children.

You’re wild

All the women are on low incomes, supported by UC, living in poor quality rented accommodation or social housing.

I suspect that he wants power over them. These women are much more vulnerable and easy to manipulate than women with careers and their own home.

Being fucked up doesn’t just come from your family of origin. That said, two siblings raised in the same family can have totally different experiences, and then sometimes you can coast along thinking you come from a nice happy functional family, and then bam, when you’re 50, it all comes out how dysfunctional it was. Maybe you just don’t see it yet? Families can be posh as shit but still really messed up deep down. Mine was.

Do you think HE sees THEM as inferior- so he always has the power advantage?
Works both ways you know

Not sure why many on here have taken offence

I think he is attracted to these women because they are warm and may nurture him in a way your family don’t and can’t

I think these women know how to have a good time and are possibly more down to earth and he can be himself with them? Whereas with his family he needs to put on an act etc he probably doesn’t want t to marry a boring, sensible MC woman and that’s ok - just embrace him and love him. You think he doesn’t feel your judgement but I guarantee you he can

I like the fact that you are being kind to the children even tho you are getting fed up of them all! Such is life!

Sure. The only reason a man would possibly consider dating a woman who's below him in social standing is because he wants power over them. It can't possibly be because he thinks they're a nice person - after all, who could possibly think someone who earns less than they do and doesn't own a house could in any way be a suitable partner? - it's got to be because he's exploiting them somehow.

FFS.

Oh, so woman who have lived lives then?

you do realise your brother has baggage too?

Are you happy, OP? Why are you so overly bitter about other woman? I hope you heal from that.

For now, focus on yourself and leave woman alone.

You sound like you have 0 life experiences.
Its giving… “pick me, my daddy will fire your daddy”

Two of the most dysfunctional women I’ve known (one an alcoholic, one a drug addict, both lost custody of their children) are also two of the most fun and charismatic people I know, both very warm and very sweet. The kind of people who light up a room.

Can it be that these women are just really good fun and nice to be around until they are not?

I think the issue is that you've put your brother on a pedestal, but he fell off it a long time ago and you didn't notice.

He doesn't sound successful.

He has no real money.

He has no asset in terms of a house. It's the bank's or the ex wife's.

So, essentially, he's only a job redundancy and maybe 3 months of paycheck away from these women who you don't think are suitable or worthy.

3 months is nothing...

Essentially, he's finding his tribe who make him temporarily happy. You have found your tribe, he's found his.

Reality is that you are completely different and if it weren't for family ties and he was a stranger, you would think he was a bit of a loser or bum if you were looking for a potential partner...

Are you embarrassed about him? Does his life reflect poorly upon you?

I have plenty of life experience - that’s how I know that when women have had babies with multiple men, it’s not unlikely that they will want to have another

Women don’t have a monopoly on drama. Generally speaking the drama isn’t the point; it ensues from not have the emotional intelligence and general maturity to know what constitutes a stable and happy relationship, and having the patience and forebearance in pursuing it. Basically, he’s thinking with his dick and prioritises fulfilling other, non-sexual immediate needs. Is it a wonder he’s a non-discerning serial monogamist? Nothing to do with class or money, everything to do with character and immaturity. A woman with healthy amounts of self-respect wouldn’t find him attractive - again, nothing to do with class or money. You need to stop looking at types and look at him. He’s the common denominator.

Would you describe the women he's meeting as similarly immature, lacking emotional intelligence, thinking only with their vaginas and as non-discerning serial monogamists?

Yeah, probably. But seeing as it’s generally women who are left holding the baby they’ll have other, additional concerns and considerations.

You do sound judgemental and a bit boundaryless. Why do you know or care about his LTV?

Women can end up looking after kids by different dads - but the dads just push off to start a new carefree life. Who should be judged first?

If you didn’t have nice middle class parents and a nice middle class husband, could you have afforded to establish and maintain a nice middle class home-owning lifestyle?

Either way you’re a snob, but if you sit in your ivory tower thanks to deposits from parents and a second income from your husband, you’re also a hypocrite.

If they're immature, lacking emotional intelligence, thinking only with their vaginas etc then where do those additional concerns and considerations come in?

My family also looks "stable middle class". No drugs, no police involvement, no spectacular problems. It took me a lifetime to realise families can be abusive in ways that are not obvious.
The most sensitive children are more affected. From your posts I'd assume your family was dysfunctional in subtle ways and your brother is more sensitive.
(BTW, I seemed to have a successful life. Academic achievements, married, 2 kids, husband with a good job. No one knew what was really going on)

Can you just say what you want to say? Because I can’t believe you don’t know the answer to the question you’ve asked - unless you’re a man who’s left a woman holding his baby.

And your brother is helpless in their conniving, chaotic, vixenish grasps, clearly.

It’s low self esteem. He’s surrounding himself with these people so he’s the superior one. He can’t be bothered to compete with the rest if you.

Life can be funny, you could end up like one of the women you describe.

Maybe he likes looking after other people. Did one of your parents expect him to look after them, either emotionally and/or practically?

Many 24 year old middle class boys would seriously consider someone older and more experienced. Ask any woman on dating apps in her 30s and 40s.

So that's the first relationship.

A youngish single dad isn't going to be first pick for childfree women unless he's objectively very attractive or very rich

(a mortgaged home with some equity and a "professional" job title and child maintenance isn't a lifestyle with lots of disposable income).

Since then I expect it's been a domino effect, dating other parents, as that's his dating/social scene.

After a certain age people who are single and childfree often aren't really genuinely interested in relationships, or will require a high level of incentives.

It's a big change and compromise to start any relationship, let alone be a step mum.

Add the fact that many men often value physical attraction way over job status.

His dating pool now isn't actually that large if he likes a relationship and doesn't like being single.

A lot of people really thrive in busy family environments without being overly concerned about how it looks, or any long term implications.

If he seems content I'd just let him be and emotionally detach from the situation.

Yes, I'm a man. My account name is supposed to be a clue but I accept that in this thread I didn't make it explicit. The general Mumsnet view is that a man posting and explicitly saying "Man here..." is doing it wrong. So I generally don't.

No, I've never left a woman holding my baby. Quite the opposite in fact. I was a single parent to my children from when they were entering primary school.

What I'm trying to say is this: yes, women don't have a monopoly on drama but neither do men. What the OP describes is a man with a child and an ex - or "baggage", as the OP so delightfully describes them - meeting women with children/exes/"baggage".

To highlight the OP's brother as apparently thinking with his dick sets a viewpoint of him being some kind of predator to these helpless victims of his dastardly wiles. Yet he's in much the same position as they are - he's got a history, he's got responsibilities for his prior life, and he's . Why assume that these women are helpless, incapable of making rational choices and/or are making decisions for different reasons than he is? Surely it's not only men who want to have a relationship with someone because they enjoy having sex with them, is it? It's not only men who happen to fall in love with people who might not tick all the boxes of "sensible choice with a good salary and low LTV", is it?

If both parties in the relationship have a history and children from prior relationships, what makes the man the villain and the woman the victim? Do they not both have agency, choice and the possibility of thinking with their gonads rather than their heads?