Would this be unusual in a swimming pool changing room?

[hoppington]

I take my son to swimming lessons every week at a local school. The changing rooms are separate male and female changing rooms with open bench areas rather than private cubicles.

We’ve been attending for a few years and until recently I’ve only ever seen parents use the changing room that matches their own sex, with their young child accompanying them. For example:

Men use the men’s changing room.
Women use the women’s changing room.
Young children go with their parent into whichever changing room that parent is using.

Over the last few weeks however, a dad has been bringing his preschool-aged into the women’s changing room and I was surprised that the dad wasn’t using the men’s changing room with him.

I’m genuinely interested in what the general etiquette is here. Am I out of touch in thinking that if there are separate male and female changing rooms, parents would normally use the changing room that matches their own sex and take their child in with them?

The preschool lesson finishes just as older children are arriving for the next session, so there are often children of various ages getting changed and showering in the communal area.

It’s also made me think about my own 4 year old son. He’s perfectly capable of getting himself dressed but I wouldn’t feel comfortable sending him into the men’s changing room alone yet especially as plenty of older children are still accompanied by a parent. What age do boys generally stop using the women’s changing room with their mum? Or should I be taking him into the men’s changing room already? I also have an 8 year old daughter who no longer does swimming lessons, but I know if she was getting changed in the females and there was a male adult hanging around that she would feel uncomfortable about this. It’s just been on my mind since the beginning of the week and keen to hear others opinions!

If you read the OP properly, as the younger children are showering at the end of their lesson, the older children are arriving and getting changed. A man seeing preschoolers changing and showering may not seem so bad, but older girls will not like being naked in front of an adult male.

You'd be surprised! Half the parents at my kids weeknight swimming lessons (London) are Dad's. Of those about half of them are there without a Mum in tow. My own husband takes our kids without me about once a month.

There are children getting changed there. And presumably many more children in the female than male changing rooms, as it sounds like it's mostly mums taking their children swimming in this case (OP can correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, or a mum taking their little girl into the men's . . . this is a man taking his son into the women/girls' changing room!

But the adults aren’t changing. Just the children
so if the man was in the men’s changing area with a daughter is that ok?

I understand the point around the younger kids being mixed in the mens/women's changing rooms anyway (plus no adults needing to change at the time), but surely the issue is that older girls may be getting changed? At DS' swimming lessons there are kids aged around 4-12 in the various levels, and a 12 year old girl should not have to deal with a man in the changing rooms.

It's even stranger that mum is sat outside waiting rather than going in with the girls. It's not like the dad is stuck for options?

I'm grateful that our local pool has a 'changing village' with cubicles so we don't have to deal with this situation.

He’s a man with a male child. What possible reason could he have to be in the women’s changing rooms?

The 2 pools I’ve attended with my children are mixed changing rooms, I presume this is for this exact reason. No need to have separate when all the kids are mixed genders

From my experience (NW England) it’s mostly mums at swimming lessons. I’m not saying there are no dads at all, but it’s mostly mums, thus more naked children in the women’s than the men’s.

This dad has absolutely no business being in the women’s with his son. I’m completely perplexed why people would think he does. Surely, if nothing else, it’s “good practice”. Like why you should indicate in your car when there’s no one else around.

I’m therefore not sure about the second part of your question in terms of when I would be happy to send him alone into the men’s. I feel he’d need to know what to do in the event of an issue

Generally it's aged 8. Once at this age they are usually comfortable to change solo. My son wouldn't come to the women's past 7. I mist admit I hoovered outside in the early days to ensure he was ok.

Why are they even gendered then? I can understand in this specific case him entering as there are no women changing, just children, which could happen in the men's. Seems he's friends with the other parents (who happen to be women).

At DD's lessons they specify that children under 8 should go with the adult to the correct changing room for said adult. Children over 8 are expected to use their correct changing room, but should use the disabled changing room if they still need help from an opposite sex parent (it's at a special school so there are multiple disabled changing rooms).

This issue is exactly why women are fighting to ensure single sex spaces remain. The recent guidance before Parliament, which clarifies the Supreme court ruling that single sex places are for biological sex, has had lots of objection from mostly Labour and LibDem MPs.

Sadly over 100 MPs do not believe women have the right to spaces such as changing rooms, free from biological men. If you feel it's important for women to have single sex spaces, make sure you know if your MP agrees with you.

This - I appreciate that he possibly does not want his daughter in the male changing room, but that is precisely why HE should not be in the ladies. The solution is to petition the centre to provide a ‘family’ changing area (tbh - those were widely available when my children were younger, they are 18 and 21 now, so am surprised you’ve not mentioned whether this is available).

I’ve given up, talks of changing and toilets seem to make people absolutely incapable of looking at the facts

he might be friends the mums
the little 4 year old boy may be new to the area and know these little girls

the dad can see nothing in that changing room that he can’t see in the Mens

im out when people are suggesting his wife is his ‘cover story’ for actually seeing nothing

madness

Yes he can see something that he won't see in the men's, the older girls that come in to get changed for the next lesson. Why are you ignoring that?

I can't imagine why he thinks this is in any way appropriate. He should take his son into the men's changing room! If the mum was helping her pre-school aged child get dry and dressed etc., fine to be in the women's changing room. An adult male should not be in there.

It seems we live a sheltered life here as changing rooms are never open plan in our local pools. No one is changing in front of anyone else, in fact there are signs up saying swimwear or clothing is to be worn at all times unless in a cubicle. Doesn't make a man taking a boy into the ladies right, just the whole set up seems odd to me.

With your updates it’s even worse. His wife doesn’t wash/shower their preschool son when it would be perfectly acceptable for her to do so in the female changing rooms. But not for her husband to use the female changing rooms with his male son, Are there any cultural issues why she doesn’t do this, is she not allowed to remove her clothing/shower in front of other naked/dressed females type thing (even if showers have cubicles and there are changing rooms with cubicles) eg possible religious/cultural reasons (grasping at possible straws here)?

The looking at other kids by him, is this really happening or are you seeing something that’s not there? If the former that’s appalling. I’d be somewhat (loosely) worried about his past but unsure what you can do for fear of being suspected to be a vigilante.

Oh ffs lighten up! It’s just a throwaway comment. I’ve heard people using it here a few times. And they’re not children.

Ok I’d bitch slap him and cuss him out then, is that acceptable enough behaviour and words for you? 🤣. Probably being typically British I would stare at him until/if he moved away. And not say anything before/after despite being tempted to.

I think the heat is getting to people today.

It's weird and inappropriate for an adult male to take a male child into the female swimming pool, but actually I do have some sympathy for the view that this doesn't really matter if the only people getting changed are children under the age of 8. Because what you have in both changing rooms are fully-dressed parents and a bunch of small kids of both sexes getting changed. It still makes no sense, given they can go in the men's. I'm assuming he just likes to chat with the other parents in his child's class but he still shouldn't do it. And of course the older girls are entitled to privacy from older boys and adult males. So yeah, it's weird but I can see why he might think it doesn't matter, although I don't agree.

My DD then 12 had swimming lessons at a private school as part of a holiday club. She came out one night in a huff to say there had been a woman in the changing room (completely open-plan) with a boy who was clearly older than she was.

When I complained it brought to light a huge safe-guarding issue. The holiday club was supposed to have completely private access to the whole school site including the pool for the entire duration of the holiday club (up to 18:00).

The pool was used by other clubs after that time but they were under strict instructions to wait off site until 18:00 because obviously the holiday club children didn't have parents there. They investigated and found there were a few parents who thought that didn't apply to them just arriving early. By taking an over age boy into the changing room this woman drew attention to herself. Had she taken a girl I doubt my DD would have said anything and nobody would have known.

They had to lock the site after that to stop people just wandering in.

Unless he is actually just a very manly she then no in no way or circumstance should a man be in a womans changing room. Ever.

The sex of the child is irrelevant (but yet makes it even more creepy). He cannot be going into the women’s changing rooms. What’s totally u reasonable is that no one’s mentioned this to him. Have you all gone mad?!??