Advice on taking child to Morocco to meet father’s family.

[LondonWeeknd]

My DD had a child following a holiday romance. Father has not met child for various reasons and is not on birth certificate. My DD is now considering taking DS to meet him and his family.

I’m concerned that if there were to be any plans in place would they be able to stop her returning to UK with him?
I know Morocco is signed up to Hague Convention but that unfortunately this is not foolproof.

No it is not. Morocco is not Spain.
It is not in the EU for one thing. With all the laws and protections that the EU gives.

Not a fucking chance.

It's very liberal. European culture and tourism is a staple of their every day life. Many Spanish people live between Spain and Morocco.

A) it's a developing world country. Are you so out of touch that you can't imagine why people from developing nations can't easily visit the UK as tourists?
B) it's not unheard of? Really? Have you got any examples of this happening in the situation described by OP in Morocco or are you making assumptions?
C) yes she will have a word in the matter. Firstly as a European she will be treated better than a Moroccan in the law. Secondly the Moroccan family code (law) is clear about custody of children under the age of 7 being assumed to be with the mother. Really not nice to make statements based on prejudice and ignorance you know?

no way

however I might financially contribute to his visa to come to the uk or (if it’s a lot easier) Spain if I thought this would help my dd

the DC deserves to meet their df in person at some point

This. Why pay for a trip over there if he claims the reason he can't get a visa is that he has no money? If she wants the baby to see him so badly just pay for the visa.

That is not the same thing as having legal protections from the EU. Which is what I was talking about. Spain does. Morocco doesn’t. Pretending they are equal in that respect is unhelpful to the OP.

It is illegal to take a child out of Morocco without the consent of the father. Who by law is considered the primary parent.

But this child isn't legally the child of this man! He has no legal rights to the child without an official Moroccan family book which he will not be able to get. I've also taken my half Moroccan child out of the country hundreds of times and not once been asked for proof of consent from the father. If a child is travelling on a British passport no questions are asked.

OP I would suggest you get some legal advice.

"Father has not met child for various reasons and is not on birth certificate"

Please understand if they are the sort of family who want to retain a child ( they may well not be) then a UK birth certificate will not be of interest to them in any respect. If the UK mother is presenting the child and saying and acknowledging he is the father that will be enough for them to accept he is.

How many Moroccan people have you sat with at a dinner table? Or had at yours? What are you basing this on?

Please do not whip me up as some sort of hater of people. I am not. I said if they were the sort of people who were inclined to do so, then a UK birth certificate would not be a thing that would concern them.
And to pretend it doesn’t happen is unhelpful to the OP. In all sorts of countries. Children have been retained and not returned to the UK parent. Advising the OP of these possibilities is helpful.

IME, they'd be more likely to doubt paternity than embrace it.

Thank you all for your comments. I’m sorry I’ve been unable to come on and respond individually. You’ve all voiced my fears and what I will now be saying to her out loud.

Look at the law:
Criminalization: Under Article 490 of the Moroccan Penal Code, sexual relations outside of marriage are illegal and punishable by a prison sentence, typically ranging from one month to a year

Her child is proof that the law was broken.

The visa and especially the not managing to get time off work are massive red flags.
Is ot your dd pushing for this meeting and he's reluctant?
If he's pushing for her to come, it's all the more reason to be concerned.

I would offer to cover visa and travel costs to Spain and consider the money most likely lost, but at least the daughter will know you tried.

Your daughter clearly hasn’t learned from her last bad decision not to make another one.

As a holiday fling I’m surprised he’s accepted paternity so easily - it’s unlikely she was the only one he has had a fling with and it would have been very easy for him to say ‘nah not me’ given the social conventions around having a child out of wedlock. I’d apply that to anyone working in the tourist industry where western women turn up on droves and lose common sense.

What’s in it for him to make such an effort to see a child he has no proof is his? Why is your daughter so keen to bring the child back when there’s no financial support incoming and the dad is effectively a stranger to them both?

As much as there might be a happy meeting where this guy accepts he’s the dad and plays with the child for an hour once a year, there’s also a chance he’s seeing this as a chance to get some cash out of a vulnerable situation where he’s dealing with some clearly not savvy, or there’s the more sinister outcome predicted above.

What’s not going to happen is a love story that’s going to lead to a happy ever after. If that’s what your daughter is hoping for, she needs to give her head a shake.

No, no way never.

Hide her passport if you must.

''@Over40Overdating · Today 14:48
Your daughter clearly hasn’t learned from her last bad decision not to make another one.''

That really is uncalled for.

The OP's daughter has a child she loves and being a single parent is not an easy choice to make.

Suggesting the child was a ''bad decision'' is really unpleasant.

I agree that taking the child to Morocco would be a dreadful mistake but her being a mother should not be called ''a bad decision''.

Blimey. So the man played no part in this conception? The ‘foreign stranger’ also decided to have unprotected (you assume, but could be contraception failure) and illegal sex with a tourist who he knew would be returning to a country it would be difficult for him to visit. Seems like he’s equally responsible to me! And could also be making daily video calls - we don’t know they aren’t.

Because the father needs to consent to the child leaving the country

No don’t do this.

He can keep in touch via FaceTime, text etc.

He can also save his money and annual leave, just like you both had to.

No he doesn't. He's not legally the father, there is no legal foundation for him to prevent her leaving the country. And even if there was, why are you so sure he's going to kidnap the baby? What makes you so sure exactly?