Advice on taking child to Morocco to meet father’s family.

[LondonWeeknd]

My DD had a child following a holiday romance. Father has not met child for various reasons and is not on birth certificate. My DD is now considering taking DS to meet him and his family.

I’m concerned that if there were to be any plans in place would they be able to stop her returning to UK with him?
I know Morocco is signed up to Hague Convention but that unfortunately this is not foolproof.

Maybe she wants her child to have a connection to half his ethnic cultural and biological roots??

Nope.

Not a chance.

He can cone here.

You and your daughter are mad to do this!!!! The child won't be allowed to leave Morocco

How do you know that?

The right thing for her to do would be to facilitate a relationship between this man and her child.

She went away, decided to have unprotected sex with a foreign stranger and keep the baby. She owes it to that baby to ensure that she facilitates a relationship between them and their father.

Anyone who refused to do that and tried to say that a poor foreigner has to try and wrestle through our immigration laws to see their child that you are keeping here away from them is vile. If i was their child, I'd never forgive them.

There should be video calls etc going on most days already. She chose this and didnt have to. She brought a child in the world knowing that their father was a someonenshe met on holiday and who probably cannot come here. She is as responsible as he is to do everything he can to be in his child's life.

One of my closest friends has a Moroccan husband and he missed their birth of their child due to visa issues. They wouldnt let him in. He met their baby when she was about 6 weeks old, last year. They don't just give them a visa if they have the money and a suitable background. It's still a struggle. They are both in their 40s.

Suggest one of those crying racism on here offers to go with her and keep them safe

Nobody is saying it’s impossible for people to migrate, of course people find ways. The point some are trying to make is that it’s not as simple or accessible as it’s sometimes being portrayed here.

A few earlier comments were quite flippant, talking about “just hopping on a ferry” or implying that if someone struggles with costs, they somehow don’t care enough. That overlooks a bigger reality: for many people, especially outside the UK/EU/US, the visa process is expensive, uncertain, and risky.

A lot of us from more affluent countries are used to visa applications - if we even need them in the first place - being fairly straightforward—we apply, and unless there’s a major issue like a serious criminal conviction, we expect approval as a given which is something someone from Morocco could not. That’s more what people are trying get at when they’re commenting on the visa I think. stats are kinda opaque but most recent African visitor visa refusal rates to the UK can fall between the 40–70% range depending on country and category I believe.

To give an example from my own situation, i live an EU country where the minimum wage is just over 1.5 times that of Morocco - and often this isn’t legally enforced. Me and my partner earn minimum wage at the moment. I’m back in the UK caring for a sick relative - the EU/UK visa waiver system is the only thing allowing my partner to easily be here with me. Those structural advantages make a huge difference, and that’s before you get more into the weeds with the acceptable’ face of visa applications vs the more ‘non desirable

The rest of your post, fair enough, your opinions, I don’t share them but it don’t make me right and you wrong :)

I wouldn't dream of doing this. Give him the responsibility of keeping in touch and coming here to see his child. Your daughter (and you, I daresay) are doing all the everyday work while he's as free as a bird.

I wouldn't for another reason - I wouldn't want her to go there to meet his family when they know she slept with a stranger on holiday. It's a completely different world.

Gladly!

Ive been to Morocco about 7 times on holiday so no reason why I wouldn't. Especially if she was known to me and her baby's father is Moroccan. Of course I'd help a baby I knew have a firm relationship with their dad. Wouldn't you? Or would you try and separate the baby from their non-white father?

Don’t compound the first mistake (unprotected sex on holiday) with a second. The proposed plan is madness. Your daughter just needs to cut ties with the ‘father’ and get on with living her life.

Yes my friend is a legal secretary. Her husband is a chef in a top restaurant and hotel in Morocco. He comes from a family of professionals. His brother is a police officer. They wouldn't let him over to visit his pregnant partner/new baby. It was so hard to get the paperwork.

You'd ensure the baby had no relationship with their father? Why would you do something so cruel? Is it becauae you'd resent the baby for being born so would want to punish it by ensuring it doesn't have links with their biological family and don't understand why they look the way they look?

I too have been to Morocco several times and stayed in villages and climbed Mount Toubkal twice fwiw.
A firm relationship does not involve her going to a country on her own with a small child to what might be a tricky reception.
I’d be setting up lines of communication and find out everything I can culturally and specifically first.
Including another visit to get the lie of the land

She's not proposing to go on her own - OP plans to go with her

She we an idiot to have sex with a Moroccan. Sex outside of marriage is still a crime there, it’s decriminalised if both parties are tourists but still very much a crime if one party is a Moroccan. They don’t generally investigate or do anything, but they will if a complaint is made by hotel staff or a family member. If she goes over there, his family could report it. He’d be in more trouble than her, but she could still be detained and then that family will take the baby.

Hiw did she even manage it? Locals are legally forbidden from gong to hotel rooms with tourists. She was an idiot. Do not take that child to Morocco when she knows nothing about how the family will behave.

Why are you assuming it will be a tricky reception?

Do you really think you can deny your child a relationship with their father in a situation where you could have both prevented and stopped a pregnancy? Like yeah there may be risk involved but you decided to have a baby with half their genetic ties being in that country. You now have an obligation and responsibility to ensure the child has access to their family and cultural heritage.

This isnt a white or white British baby. This baby is half Moroccan. Probably from a Muslim background. That baby deserves the best chance of being as integrated in that culture as its British mother. To deny them that would be an injustice. The mother chose this life. She chose to have these issues. She can't deny the baby the right to their family to try and rectify a complicated situation.

Dad might not be able to come here frequently. That is the case from my experience. In fact, the more entwined their relationship became over years, the less likely her husband was to get a visa to come here. It was if their growing relationship made them think he definitely won't leave if they allow him to visit.

Laws for Moroccans are applied extremely loosely to tourists. Tourists don't get arrested for sex outside of marriage in Morocco unless they are doing something insane like having sex in public. Police would never arrest a tourist for having a baby out of marriage. You clearly have zero idea of Moroccan laws and customs.
It's very easy for Moroccans and tourists to meet in hotels for sex! I don't know whether you're confusing Morocco with Saudi Arabia but it's really a very liberal country in comparison with other Muslim countries and tourists are not subject to the same laws as locals, for right or wrong.

Please note the word ‘might’

I’ve spent a lot of time in Morocco. And you’ve ignored most of what I’ve said. I said the same as you regarding tourists.

But it is illegal for locals to have sex with tourists, and they are banned from going back to hotels and riads with them. It was only a couple of years ago that the law changed and riads stopped asking to see marriage certificates for tourists staying.

Yeah you are right, sorry - I skimmed your post and responded angrily because the rest of this thread made me angry but you do know Morocco so I was wrong to say that. I have a Moroccan ex and I've seen first hand many of his friends having flings as well as serious relationships with tourists and it's extremely easy and normalised. And even if it's technically illegal to sleep with a Moroccan outside of marriage you know perfectly well it's the Moroccan who will be harassed by the legal system, not the European.

I dont know where youve been in Morocco but that isnt my experience of it either. I could hsve easily got myself pregnant by a local in Morocco! We were drinking and smoking hash. Morocco is just Spain in Africa.

I wouldn't quite say that - maybe to a tourist it feels like Spain but not to Moroccans - the legal system is still very oppressive and cultural norms for Moroccans are very different to Spain. However your point supports the OP's suggestion. Tourists are highly protected in Morocco. Tourism is their first industry and when the system harasses or oppresses a tourist it's terrible publicity and the state does not want that.

I have mostly stayed with my friend's husband's family. They have an air bnb or we stay in their family home. We are tourists, but also not if you know what I mean. She's with her in laws

No. Would be my advice. Why would anyone struggle to get a visit visa to come here ? Unless on some list of undesirables to the UK.
It is not unheard of for children to be taken by the paternal family. And not returned back. And as a woman you will have no word in the matter.
A big fat no.