Advice on taking child to Morocco to meet father’s family.

[LondonWeeknd]

My DD had a child following a holiday romance. Father has not met child for various reasons and is not on birth certificate. My DD is now considering taking DS to meet him and his family.

I’m concerned that if there were to be any plans in place would they be able to stop her returning to UK with him?
I know Morocco is signed up to Hague Convention but that unfortunately this is not foolproof.

Wouldn’t it be cheaper for her to pay for his visa than fly you both out? If he has an excuse about work it sounds like a lie tbh
He can come in the future then when he does..

Yes? I'm saying he can wait to see the child until he can pay for a visa to visit the child in the UK.

This.

I absolutely wouldn’t go if I were her even with you. I would be really cautious even about meeting in a third country.

Absolutely no way. Not even with you for support. If he can’t afford a visa to visit then he isn’t supporting her financially either. She doesn’t really know him or his motives.

Don’t do it. Even with you there. And hiding the passport that’s not going to stop them snatching the baby is it. Sorry but wise up to this foolish idea

Wouldn’t it be cheaper for her to pay for his visa than fly you both out?

Don't send money.
Firstly, a pp has said he's unlikely to get a visa.
Secondly, if he's legit, and can get a visa, he'll find the money.
If he's not legit, if you send money for the visa, then there'll be something else he needs money for, then something else.....

What is his job?

Absolutely fucking not

Fuck me. Do you know anything about Morocco? You confidently claim 'they' (what all of them?) would 'spit on' unmarried mothers? Do you know how racist you sound??

There haven't been any ferries between Morocco and Gibraltar since the 90s or thereabouts and there's no way an average Moroccan will get a visa to visit Gibraltar!

The ignorance on this thread is startling.
Moroccans can’t just ‘get a visa’ or hop on a plane to the UK! I have a friend who is a teacher and studying for a PhD (Moroccan) and he can’t get a visa to visit friends in the UK (or anywhere in Europe).
Having said that I’d be very wary of taking a baby to visit.

I'm going to Morocco later today from mainland Spain.
It's €60 each way on the ferry to Tangier.
Add on the cost of a visa, it makes it pretty unaffordable for a lot of people.

It would have to be over my cold, dead, body. Way too much of a risk.

Then he comes to UK when he is able. Also I wouldn’t recommend you as a woman go even a male going with her would be better. What if you get there and they dismiss you won’t let you in the house? Bad idea all round

The wider family will regard the child as belonging to them, even if the sperm donor isn’t that interested.

Pity that your DD ever alerted any of them to the child’s existence in the first place.

Keep the lad safe, never let them know if he is anywhere outside UK.

Why do you say that? What knowledge do you have about Moroccan culture?

People saying about how Moroccans can’t get visas to come to the UK but many Moroccans live here so there’s obviously a way.

I go to Morocco a lot and absolutely love it there but I’m well aware that my western lifestyle and clothing is frowned upon. I’d be cautious and not want to take the child to Morocco. I see one poster wanting to shouting racism already but the reality is you just don’t know what his family are like and what they may or may not to. There’s always a lot of assumptions about men but the women are also in on these plans (look at the thread about the lady wanting to remove her hijab and the coercive and controlling message from the Muslim convert!!).

I understand not sending money but if he has actually sought advice about a visa to come and visit on holiday surely it’s cheaper to pay for that and confirm you’ll cover the costs of a premier inn or something for a few nights than to travel to Morocco.

Personally I think if this were me I’d be cutting all ties with the father. How can this ever really end well? He’s not been involved in any way so far, you don’t know his family or what he may do when you get over to Morocco, you presumably won’t be able to converse with many members of his family as they won’t speak English, the whole thing is ridiculous. OP if your daughter has a loving family around her here, there isn’t any benefit for young grandchild to get to know a bunch of strangers abroad.

Not sure how old the baby is but he's had at the very minimum 9 months to save for a visa. I would not be taking my child to him if I was your daughter, she will likely never see the child again, it will only be a can I have a cuddle and before you know it baby is put into a car and never seen again.
Let them come to the UK and the UK only if they want to meet the child

OP - have you and your daughter done any research about this?
I have just had a quick google (interest piqued by the claims that Moroccans csnts get visas and cries of racism). Moroccans can get visas, although there is a process to go through (so possibly he cba). Sex outside of wedlock is illegal in Morocco and single mothers are stigmatised and generally shunned by their families - it’s not racist to say this if it is true. It’s viewed as shameful for the father too.
Does the father actually want your daughter to visit.

I think people here are making very bold assumptions - not all foreigners are bad and want to kidnap babies! Also cost is a real issue, visas are very expensive. What is the cost of a Gibraltar or Spanish visa? Is the ferry cheaper than a plane. I’d also point out how unfair he has to pay so much for a visa when we pay nothing to visit Morocco. I may be bias because my old neighbour was in a 10 year marriage to a Moroccan man who returned home after they divorced, her children went out there and were returned on schedule, he at no point wanted his kids to give up their British lives as like more people from poorer nations they believe it’s better to live here than there. They would also have to be wealthy to be able to afford legal help to even process a child claim there which doesn’t seem to be the case. Most child abductions are were formally resident in Britain foreign nationals take them back overseas not some kind of set up.

But why? Is it because she wants to rekindle the relationship? Has she been told/asked something you don’t know?

Having recently visited Morocco there’s no way I’d be travelling there as a single mother to introduce my child to a family I know nothing about.

The law, police and society in general would likely be more supportive of a man than an unmarried foreign mother and that man’s illegitimate child. Sex outside of marriage is a crime in Morocco btw and even if a mother has custody of her child, the father is always the legal guardian (unless removed by court order).

Let me begin by saying * I don’t think it’s a good idea for the OP’s daughter to go and visit Morocco with no trusted relationship established* for the sane and clear reasons lots of people have said, but i also think that some of the comments are also overlooking the financial and visa realities here in the throwaway way people are referencing ‘just go to Gibraltar’ or dismissing the affordability issue.

Assuming for example that the two met when she was on holiday which doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility, the avg wage for a hospitality worker in Morocco is c.500gbp/mo, whilst the family reunion visa costs c.135 plus fees, and that’s without any guarantee the visa will be accepted. Refusals of these visas are fairly high for men of NA origin. Let’s try and remember stuff like this when we consider or judge people through the same lens we would if they were from the UK. Let’s also remember that as a working male it’s highly likely in Morocco that his wages are also being used to support other family members.

OP, I feel for you and your daughter. It’s a tough position and lots of the advice is going to be coloured by eveything on the spectrum from rational fears based on reality, to the more unfair prejudices here. Both you and your daughter will know better (to a degree l) if this is something you could imagine supporting, if it would be received well, but there will always necessarily have to be an element of trust there too, maybe for the sake of your grand daughter’s relationship with her dad, it could be an idea to offer to help financially support this first visa application (since it’s likely proof of funds for supporting visit is going to end up comprising part of the application anyway) as a more acceptable compromise until more of a relationship can be established?

In real world actual terms it's extremely rare for Moroccans to get tourist visas for the UK unless they have a LOT of money. That's reality. There is certainly a stigma against unmarried moroccan women but Moroccans on the whole don't apply their own standards to foreigners and they generally understand that there are different cultural norms.