Any advice for someone who doesn't know one end of horse from another. How expensive is this likely to be?

[Spero]

Grateful for any advice, just starting on my research here for next year.

I am not remotely interested in horses, but my daughter is. Her only dream is to have a pony. We live within half a mile of a riding centre/stables so I was wondering if it is feasible to think about getting her a pony which could live at the riding centre and she goes round a few times a week to do whatever it is you do with these animals.

Once she is in secondary school in 2016 I expect to free up about £500 per monthin child care costs.

So if I can take the hit on buying a pony (I assume a few thousand or depends on what you want?) I assume if there is space, he or she could live at the riding centre if I pay for it.

do you think £500 a month is feasible for livery, saddles, whatever else? Tack seems eye wateringly expensive from the little I know.

i have heard of people sharing or loaning out a pony - would this be a good idea in case the reality of a pony doesn't quite meet my daughter's dream? I think she is quite realistic has she has been having lessons for two years and been on pony camps etc so she knows the score.

Sorry, its entirely my fault because I have now signed on for wifi access on the train and at court, so my procrastination knows no bounds. I should have let it die a few pages back.

but Bonkey, if you could give me a breakdown of costs, that would be excellent as you are in my area.

"I'm assuming that if your car breaks down you have a full working knowledge of engines? Or do you just take it to a mechanic?"

YouBastard I spent several months learning how to drive a car with a qualified instructor from a national driving school. Then I had to pass a test before I was deemed safe to be on the road with it. I know when it needs refuelling feeding and what to put in it; when to change the oil; how to check for air pressure and when the tyres are worn it needs reshoeing ; and when the engine doesn't sound right I need to call the vet. I.e. whilst I'm not a mechanic, I know enough to know when to call one and when I'd be pouring money away because it just needs petrol.

I actually take more interest in my bike, which is my main form of transport. I've learned how to fix various things because it's cheaper than taking it to a bike mechanic and handier if you want to get back on the road quickly. I like learning about things and besides, I know if I've got the right mechanic or not when they say "but really, do you need the 48?" and I point out that it's the most worn chain ring of the lot so yes I bloody need it. Of course I appreciate that not everyone wants to get that involved or wants to learn that much stuff. I just think it's handy to pick up enough knowledge to be able to pick your expert.

These might be helpful:

www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF%20Documents/The%20Cost%20of%20Keeping%20a%20Horse%20or%20Pony.ashx

www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF%20Documents/Buying%20and%20Owning%20Your%20First%20Horse.ashx

www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/considerations-when-buying-a-first-pony-for-your-child.html

www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/buying-a-pony-for-your-child-what-the-non-riding-parent-needs-to-learn.html

www.independent.ie/business/farming/idiots-guide-to-buying-a-firsttime-pony-26472228.html

Fizzle pop, thanks those look very useful links.

Gabilan - but that's not the same analogy - I don't want to drive the car myself or be responsible for it's roadworthiness. I want to hire a nice chauffeur/mechanic to do all that for my daughter until she is old/competent enough to sort it out herself. I may never even get in the car for a drive.

Thebestmum - not sad at all. They live with us at home from November to March and DD rides them most weekends in the Spring (their showing yard is more than 2 hours away..). However most weekends they are going to shows so we just ride them there and are much loved and appreciated. DD also has her palomino Sec B at home all the time so she can spend more time with them and she also has spare rides for producers if our horses aren't competing..

Spero - I agree that it is totally possible for non-horsey parents to own ponies - we see it all the time and totally agree that if you chose your professionals carefully it won't be an issue..

I have to say, part livery (where my horse is, this is muck out, turn out/in, feed, change rugs and pick out feet) is by far the best option. I do assisted diy on the weekend, so the yard either put him out or bring him in at one end of the day and I muck out and either turn out or bring in at the other.

I think that those that suggest only seeing your horse 3x a week are bad owners are wrong. Sometimes (if dd is ill or I'm on holiday), I won't see him all week but I know that he's in safe hands.

This brings me on to my next point. Make sure that you are 00% comfortable with the yard you put your horse onto. If you don't trust the people looking after him/her or its a horrible bitchy yard, it will make horse ownership miserable. You don't pay a load of money to be treated like shit. Bear that in mind, it can be brutal!!

On the other hand, you find the perfect yard, and you're into a winner.

Good luck & let us know how you get on.

Thanks, I will be back in a few years, hopefully with only happy tales of fat little ponies.

thanks again for all the advice, lots to think about.

Happy riding all.

And get this - all the horses lived well into their 30s despite being owned by a family with no prior knowledge of horses, no land and no money! I've spent most of my adult life telling people horses are accessible and are (with proper supervision and education - this is the key, and it CAN be bought) very good discipline for children. And then you get numpties coming along who say "oh no. Horses are not for everyone. You have to be born with The Knowledge, and have bottomless pits of money - it is not for ordinary people. Ffs.

Backinthebox whilst it's hugely clear your family are clearly responsible and have had the aptitude, determination and staying power (and some luck I should think) to do what you have done over the last 30 years, you have to admit it's a very different picture out there today for those entering the horse world.

Yes, supervision and education are important, and I get that you have stressed this, but tbf, to have achieved what you have with "no prior knowledge, no land and no money" is highly remarkable and exceptionally rare. I'm not sure it is a recommended path to take though!

It's clear Spero is entering this with her eyes wide open and with a level of financial security, so this is more for the sake of any lurkers and general all-roundliness (I know that's not a word) of info on this thread (I expect thread is hugely informative for lots of people looking in) I do want to throw this in the mix too, as a reminder for all that circumstances can and do change, and you do have to consider what happens if things go wrong:

All the major organisations have seen an increase in horses being admitted (Figure 2) and an increase in equine welfare complaints. The rising costs of food, veterinary care and stabling, and the poor weather during the last few winters, probably accounts for some of the extra calls from the public reporting welfare concerns.

Redwings has seen an increase in abandoned horses being reported to their welfare team from 160 in 2009 to 450 in 2011, almost three times as high. By the end of June 2012 this figure had reached 491, exceeding the previous year’s figure at the end of the first six months of this year.

The RSPCA has seen a 61 percent increase in complaints about equines in the past six years.

World Horse Welfare has seen welfare investigations rise steadily from 2006–2010 and in the first half of 2012 the charity took in 10 groups of horses highlighting a rise in multiple-horse welfare cases.

Since 2009 the organisation has had to stop encouraging people to contact the charity for rehoming advice due to the volume of welfare calls, at a time when this advice is more important than ever. Blue Cross has reported that 21 percent of horses admitted to their centres in the year to June 2012 were due to welfare reasons, an increase from the 12 percent reported for the same period in 2007–2008.

www.horseworld.org.uk/uploads/documents/1350371514_Horsecrisisreportfinal.pdf

to have achieved what you have with "no prior knowledge, no land and no money" is highly remarkable and exceptionally rare.

Not as rare as all that.

Here are articles about Carl Hester, Nicola McGivern, Phoebe Buckley, Frankie Dettori and Mary King, to name a few - all from non-horsey backgrounds. I dont deny that there are many welfare issues and abandoned horses these days - many of the most recent high profile cases have involved horses in large numbers who have been neglected by people who have been around horses all their lives and who really ought to know better.

You've managed to add aptitude, determination and staying power to my factors of supervision and education. None of these qualities are money, land or prior knowledge though. All of these latter things can be acquired with application of the former.

Now I am older, I allow other children in the village to ride my ponies in exchange for mucking out, under either my supervision or the supervision of their mothers who had ponies once themselves but gave up riding for career/family reasons. None of these children would be able to afford their own pony, but I get pleasure out of encouraging them and seeing them progress. I currently have 4 children under my wing this way, as well as my own 2 kids. I also act as a supervisor of unaccompanied children for our local hunt. The girls I chaperoned this season both had non-horsey parents and would not have been able to hunt without me or someone like me with them. I lent the younger one a pony to ride for her first time out and she had a lovely time. Over the past few years I have run kids' show jumping sessions and organised fun rides. I am enthusiastic about horses and do my best to offer advice and assistance to anyone who wants to get started. It's far better to give encouragement than to take the view that the horsey world is a difficult one to get into unless you are born into it. That way divides people's opinions on horsey folk and leads to some of the class prejudice you see from both sides these days.

I was also told on many occasions that it was not possible for someone like me to fly planes for a living, on account of being female and working class. Luckily for me, I ignored all those opinions, just as I would have ignored some of the opinions on this thread on children of non-horsey parents having ponies, and now have the time, land and money to play at ponies to my heart's content. None of which I was born with. Luck has played a small part, but determination, as well as encouragement and assistance from others has played a much bigger part.

Good luck to anyone who wants to get started in ponies - there are many ways to skin a cat, it's not impossible if you take a considered approach to it, which I believe Spero is.

Sorry to be patronising backinthebox, but that's warmed the cockles of my heart ! Wish there were more of you around!

love that post, backinthebox we need more people like you!
My DD16 met someone like you when she was 11 and had the best start in riding ever, bareback hacking , pony care and so on.
Now thanks to her she is off to a well known equestrian centre in Gloucstershire to train for a year!

Yes that is a lovely post and couldn't agree more, particularly about the being born into it (and I hope nothing in my posts give reason for anyone to think that I think this or am overly negative!).

Volunteering opportunities can be a fantastic route for people to get involived.

Fab post Backinthebox! I do somehting similar in our village with our horses.

I loved horses as a child but never had one. Dh knows nothing about them. We were lent a paddock by a friendly neighbour and lent a pony by a friend. We made it work because we cared desperately about looking after the pony properly. Dd had lessons for 5 years. We joined the pony club and put up with being barked at by an endless stream of terrifying women. We were called 'rank amateurs' to our face. It's five years on, we have four horses and dd is going British Eventing this year. The horses are our lives. If you learn from everyone you meet you will be perfectly fine

And please don't worry about colic/leg breaking/euthanasia. That's what vets are for

Boo. I was just about to start researching chain saws.

Backinthebox, you make it sound quite fun!

Lovely post Friday!

We have our horses at home and used to do livery once upon a time. The horror of some of those who professed to be " experts"!!!

Now watch it Spero, you're beginning to get sucked right in! It's a slippery slope!

Of course it's fun! I especially like galloping very fast and jumping medium sized obstacles (not too big - scary, and not too small - boring) and the drinking of the hip flask bit that seems to be obligatory out hunting . I've just reached the point where I can ride with both my children. DD can just about manage herself off the leadrein and DS is on Mr Supersafe who only needs a lead rein when presented with a choice between walking through a puddle or a tree (he likes to keep his fluffy little feet dry!) DH follows on a, and it's lovely to be able to all go out together. DD managed her first season hunting off the lead rein last winter on Mr Supersafe - it was brilliant. I am especially excited for next year, I think DD will be able to manage pairs XC and Trec with me. She'll score a big fat 0 for her canter, most likely, and it will be no good at all for my results but I do like all this introduction to new things malarkey.

Missed the word bike out there, for some reason.

I really hope you find someone like backinthebox to guide your dd. Just keep your eye out for the numpties, sadly there are few out there.

A few, obviously!

If you are thinking of putting the horse on working livery- which I do think would be a good potential solution-then your costs will be lower than on fully livery.

On average, working livery will cost between £40-£70 a week, depending on what is included and how many hours you are willing to allow the horse to be used for. This would usually include the cost of bedding, feed and most horse care. Specialist feed and supplements probably wouldn't be included in this price.

On top of this, you would usually have to pay for a set of shoes around once every 6 weeks at around £60 a set.

Insurance +medical costs will usually be on top of this and may be slightly more expensive due to the horse being on working livery. £60 a month might be a reasonable estimate for this.

So, say your baseline cost per month is around £300-£400.

Lessons with an instructor would probably be on top of this- and it would be a good idea to keep up with this at least for the first few years.

You'd also usually be expected to supply all the tack/equipment the horse needed and replace it if this was needed.

For tack, the price is hugely variable, but I would expect you to be able to buy a bridle for £100+, a saddle for £500+, rugs for £50-100 each (how many you need will depend on the pony). The saddle probably wouldn't include a numnah, stirrups or a girth, so I would budget another £70 or so at least for these- and they would possibly be more likely to get lost or damaged while on working livery (and a certain style of stirrup might be insisted upon for safety reasons).

That's still well within your price range, though.

I think the thing with working livery is to go into it making very clear what your expectations are, including the number of hours you want the horse to be used for, the type of riders you're willing to allow to ride the horse, and the level of work you'd want the horse to be doing. Having a whole weekend day when the horse isn't used for lessons might increase the price for you, or might be a sticking point for some stables.

You'd also need to think about and discuss what would happen if the horse wasn't able to work due to lameness or injury, or what might happen if the riding school decided the horse wasn't suitable for use in lessons any longer.

Ideally, at the stage of negotiating a contract, it would be great to have someone horsey but not involved with the riding school to be on your side during discussions.

£100+ for a bridle?!?!

Yes you can buy them at that price but I have a very good quality one for £40. I don't think I have ever paid more than that and they have lasted years and years and years.

And my saddle was £80 2nd hand....although I admit it was from a friend and synthetic but still - the same saddle new is £250/300!

Tack costs as little or as much as you are willing to pay...

spero Can you pop me a message and I will have a look at costs for you in this area, I will forget otherwise

....but never go too cheap! Because then it is cheap